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TJ Cold Air Intake

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JeepJam
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Joined: 14 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 9:10 am    Post subject: TJ Cold Air Intake Reply with quote

Hey guys
I have an 02' TJ & just got a 03' KJ for wifey.
All looks good, but I am looking at getting a CAI for both Jeeps.
I have been looking at various intakes including Airaid / Volante etc
I have been advised against K&N.
I am kinda confused as to which one to go for... I saw this awsome kit by DATOOR (www.DATOOR.com) their kit comes with steel mesh filter and black chromed pipes Finger
Has anyone ever tried those kits and if so, what are they like??
The good thing is DATOOR is a manufacturer & Canadian... so the prices should be great.
Any help/advise here would be great
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ehirner
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't bother, they are not worth it on a TJ. If you've got a 4.0L in your TJ, almost every ounce of power has been squeezed out of the engine. It's been around for decades and has been updated numerous times over the years. Not to mention, until you begin sucking in air from outside the engine compartment, it's never really going to be cold. The heat will travel through the "shield" provided with the kits and heat up the air around the filter. In addition, those open element filters typically allow more dirt through and into the engine. Not good.

If these devices were worth the money, and provided the gains they claim, don't you think they would be used as original equipment direct from the factory?

The most worthwhile modifications for better performance out of your engine, whether it's the 4.0L or the 2.5L is gears, a stroker kit (4.0 only as far as I know) or a supercharger.
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Code3TJ
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The K&N style filters concern me because when i had them, they allowed fine dust through into the intake. I think most of the systems from the various manufacturers are pretty similar - there's only so much you can do to make each one different. Wink
Depending on how creative you are, you could get the parts from this place and make your own. I've thought about it, but it wouldn't fly with my smog nazis.
Anybody else have any input? Mr. Green
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qadhafi
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like sounding like a 95 civic. Finger
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ehirner
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to add that a guy I wheel with has a Hummer snorkel on his TJ. Very cool looking and actually functions as a cold air intake.
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JeepJam
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:05 pm    Post subject: Jeep CAI Reply with quote

Ehirner, I partially agree with what you're saying...
I am sure all possible power has been squeezed outa the block, but have you considered this;
When the blocks are dynoed prior to instal, they provide a specific power rating. After install and dyno run, the figures are considerable less. Now I know you are going to say thats due to various other components, runing gear etc, thats partialy true, but the airflow into your engine decides how well the aif-fuel-spark ratios combust.
Now you will notice of a cooler damp day when the air outside is denser than normal, that your chariot drives kinda 'lighter' or handles better - thats cos of the colder, more denser air.
Now, if I was to add a good intake that takes this cooler air from the outside.... I'm sure you catch my drift!!

Furthermore, "The heat will travel through the "shield" provided with the kits and heat up the air around the filter." the rate of flow into the engine would simulate coller air. By this I mean that the air is not in the tube long enough to be heated up. The rapid suction of air will be free-flowing I would presume.

With regards to dirt getting into the cylinders and various chambers, the DATOOR kit comes with an "ANTI Heat/Water Shield", this should help against dirt. Furthermore, I think with technology being so far advanced, the filters are likely to do a good job, dont you think. Afterall, these DATOOR people seem to be supplying a steel mesh filter with their kit which I am told is serviceable unlike the claims by K&N.

You also agree that aftermarket exhaust systems aid performance? then why dont they make that OE!?!?!

It's all about business and gettin us to reach deep into our pockets to make their product meet our demands.

Jesus... I should have written a book or something..
Okay guys coff up the $$$ its gonna cost ya to read this Mr. Green
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WhatWasIThinkin
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not realy wanting to gang up on ya man Mr. Green but I agree for the same reasons Code3 and Ehirner said about the allegedly cold air intakes.
Ive been there and done that and went back to the stock unmodded air box with paper element. Dont go for the hype. Many before have done it and got nothing but extra intake noise for there cash.

The 4.0 aint meant to be a high rev screamer. I dosent need and realy cant use more air effectively enough to create HP. The main problems inhearant to this engine are head design and relitively short cylinder stroke. The engine was designed to build torque at a low rpm. I didnt look at the site you refered to yet, but most of the open breather brands advertise hp gains at high RPM's......way out of the area that your typical 4.0 will actually ever see. Most rate HP at 5grand. Jeeps wont run long at 5K. Something in the engine or drivetrain will go snap.

K&N and copycats do allow more air threw than paper elements. Alot more dirt too! They allow more of both due to the holes in the cotton that allows more of everything to pass.
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ehirner
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You missed my point about the underhood heat JeepJam. The engine will create heat. That heat will increase the temperature of everything under the hood through convection and conduction. The cold air intake kits are not really using cold air b/c they're still using the air under the hood.

I'm not going to bother explaining any more. From you're second post, it appears you've already convinced yourself you'll see benefits and want to flush your money down the drain even though we've advised you not to.

And as far as the aftermarket exhausts....I'd guess this comes down to emissions. There's lots of laws governing how much by-products can be spewed into the air. There's not much that states how big the intake must be.
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JeepJam
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:38 am    Post subject: Cold Air Intake Reply with quote

Hey guys... I went ahead and ordered that blach chrome intake from DATOOR. Ordered it Thursday afternoon, got it Friday morning!!! Thats what I call customer service.

The kit...., boys.... this kit looks trick!!! The blackchrome tubing, and BlitZ type steel mesh filter really looks good - I wasn't expecting this much for my hard earned $$$

Installed the kit, all went fine - even got a heat shield as part of the kit.

The test...
Jeep felt like somebody had taken some weight off it.. weird... my jeep actually felt lighter, more responsive at lower revs.

Got onto the motorway and floored it, the engine sounded like a blinkin' V F#@%ing 8 , rolling thunder!!! and even from 70km upto 110km, it flawed effortlessly. As soon as I stopped trying to bury the accelerator, the 'thunder' was gone and jeep was back to sounding like its usual self.

Now I dont know if you guys have had bad experiences due to product issues or your engines not running well prior to CAI install, but even if my jeep is sucking HOT HOT air... what ever it is.... it's working.

Only bad thing about this kit... no fitting instructions.....
Overall, BIG thumbs Definately recommed this one.
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ehirner
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's something like the placebo effect...you want to believe it's working, so you make it work in your mind. Also, don't worry, the computer will reset to take advantage of the new air intake and you'll be back to normal.

Perhaps it felt like better performance b/c you were pushing the gas pedal so hard?
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JeepJam
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an engineer, I am very sceptical about things... I need to see the product working before I believe in it.

I been driving my TJ for a while now and know it's every sound. In the same way, although I appreciate what you're saying about the placebo effect and all, this CAI does actually work.

I guess you have had a bad experience in the past, but remember.... how many chicks did you break up with to find the right one?? you wanted to believe she was the right one, but inevitably you moved on. Same thing I guess - plenty of fish in the sea, but ony one fish is good for dinner!!

The computer would have corrected itself on start-up or if it's lazy, would have done so after my blast around town to compensate. Yet, driving it all weekend, I got the power, the comfot of pulling away quickly and a smoother engine.

Now, wifey also is happy. You try telling her she's nuts and your gonna be on reciept of a fist from hell - faster than your mama's ever slapped you!!!

I know.. I have the bruises Mr. Green
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Code3TJ
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wondering - there's only so much that can be done with an intake - it's not rocket science. What makes this one so much different than all the others?
Also, your ECU has something called adaptive memory - give it 50 warm-up cycles and report back about the "V8 power."
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JeepJam
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never tried any other intake, so can't tell you whats so different about the DATOOR one. Never-the-less, all I can say is that I am happy with what I have under the hood.

I got the DATOOR brand cos I had heard they are also suppliers to the Canadian Rally Team. Furthermore, with rally inspired technology and something that looks different, not to mention GREAT...... in comparisson to the available market hype, I went with this one.
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WhatWasIThinkin
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeepJam, Do you own or work for this DATOOR company? or have some involvement with them?
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ThePhantum
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is also perception. Let's look at the physics and basic engineering of it. As ehirner stated earlier, the 4.0 has been around for awhile. It's gone from producing 177 hp @ 4750 rpm, 220 ft lb @ 4000 rpm back in the 80's, to being able to produce 195 hp @ 4750 rpm and 225 ft lb torque @ 3000 rpm in it's current form. It has already been finely tuned to deliver the maximum power gains it can without altering the bore and stroke.

On the latter 4.0's, the fuel rail assembly, specifically the injectors, are tuned to the stock air intake, head porting, cylinder bore/stroke, compression ratio, and cam lift/duration. You can try draw all the air you want into the engine, but if you can't push any more fuel through the injectors, or flow air better through the heads, or increase the compression ratio, or push it out of the exhaust any better, etc., there are no real gains.

Even adding a perfromance exhaust, and chip with a CAI will do very little in the HP department on the latter 4.0's. I have yet to see a dyno test that shows any performance gain from a CAI on this engine. The ones I've seen actually show little to no HP increase and a DECREASE in torque...and the Jeep dynos they tout that show 25HP gains are usually the V8's in the Grands, where more airflow does actually help. Without doing a stroker kit, performance chip and exhaust system in addition to a performance intake, the 4.0L will do nothing but make more noise, giving the impression of more power.

Also, as was stated before, it's not a true cold air intake. All these systems do is draw air that is a little cooler than what the stock air box would draw. A true cold air intake is called cowl induction...or a snorkel which has the added bonus of allowing you to take yer Jeep swimming...that's where I would have put my money. Mr. Green

My $0.02

Steve
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