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first jeep

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goflight2
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Joined: 18 Sep 2004

PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:16 pm    Post subject: first jeep Reply with quote

Hey guys, just bought my first Jeep (Silver 04 Unlimited with Hard Top) and had a few questions. I mostly will be using it as a daily commuter, but we do go offroading about six times a year (mostly desert riding) with our quads and would want to bring the jeep along. I went to a local shop here in SoCal, and he recommended a body lift and some new tires, K and N air filter kit, and some sort of hot chip. My question is will a lift be necessary (I actually like the look of ehriners (sp) jeep with the new 31's without a lift but will I rub and what are the downsides of the body lift. And are the other mods worth the dough right now. Honestly it looks kind of wimpy with the stock tires. Thanks in advance, C Mr. Green
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Code3TJ
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

welcome
I'd avoid the chip, but that's just me. As for the K&N, if you switch it before heading out into the desert, you'll be okay, but I junked mine after I started finding dust was getting past the filter. Since you're new to owning jeeps, take a look at the FAQ. it'll probably answer a lot of questions you haven't even thought of yet. Wink
Yes, you can fit 31's on a stock jeep. I wouldn't go too much on the body lift and take a look at something like the OME lift.
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WhatWasIThinkin
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Epping New Hampsha

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your best bet is leave the engine alone. Use the money on oil changes and upkeep instead. The chips, cloth/mesh filters etc are all show and no go. You wont find any major improvements here. I dont give a damn what the aftermarket companies say or imply. They all boast big gains in HP at 5000rpms. Your jeep wont ever see 5k rpms during normal use....probably never break the 3000 area. Jeep engines are made to have a good low range torque, not high rpms. When you force or change an engine like this to make power at high rpms, the torque suffers dramatically.

The reason the K&N style filters move more air is because they have big holes in the pleats for air to get threw. Bigger holes means biggers peices of dirt going into the engine. All of use have been there done that and most of us have switched back to paper elements after discovering dirt inside the air tube or throttle body shock

If you want better use of power, regear the axles and install lockers. If you go to 31's or larger 4.10 or 4.56 gears will put a mile wide smile on your face. It will feel like you dropped a 400ci V8 under the hood. Mr. Green

Put the money into lift and tires, there more fun anyway. 31's can be done without any BL or suspension lift. You may rub slightly at full turn if your using stock wheels and thier offset. That is easily corrected by putting a washer behind the steering stops. A BL will not stop the tire rub btw. In this case the rub isnt related to the body. The tire will rub against the swaybar. Lifting the body wont fix that at all.

Avoid going over 1" or 1-1/4" BL. Thats the max. 2 or 3" BL's are out there but should never be used on a Jeep. Any sort of suspension lift is a better way to fly.

Maybe not as much fun, but praticle is an engine skid. Skid Row make a great one and Warn(btw is the same as the dealer/mopar one) is ok and better than nothing. Protect the oil pan. A hole in it 50 miles into the desert is not a good thing. Since the 02 model year the stock fuel tank skid has been beefed up and now is very rugged compared to the older thin steel one, so I wouldnt worry about that one untill you beat it up some then the Warn or Kilby brands are real nice.

So congrats on the new Jeep. You will be amazed at what a bone stock TJ is capable of.
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ehirner
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They covered mostly what I wanted to say...stay away from the chip and avoid the K&N or whatever brand of air intake they try to sell you. With the atmosphere you said you would be wheeling in....you're asking for trouble with the fine dust getting through a cloth/oil filter like a K&N.

I also wanted to clarify that I actually have a Rubicon Express Budget Boost (it's a 2" spacer lift) on my Unlimited with 31x10.5R15 Trxus MTs.
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KnightFire
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Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Location: Hanover, MD

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK...why is it that all you guys are SO anti engine modifications? Personally, with the small amount of modifications that I've done (CAI, exhaust, headers, etc) to mine...I've yet to find another 4.0L motor that I couldn't walk on the highway and I NEVER have to shift down to 4th gear on the highway when I want to pass.

Personally if you want more power there is only ONE way to do it, thats modifying the motor or starting out with various bolt-ons (CAI, exhaust, headers, programming, etc.)

Do all of you really believe that "its all show and no go"? Or, is it you just believe that with Jeeps? Or, are so much into trail riding where the max speed is 5-10mph and see no reason for more HP?

These type of posts really have me stumped!

You guys give GREAT advice on tires/lifts and the like, but when ever it comes to modifying a motor for more power...you really do need to do some research. I mean do people think that the 4.0L motor is the ONLY motor on the planet that doesn't respond to modifications?!

Just trying to figure it all out...no harm or flames intended. It's just a trend that I have noticed...


KnightFire
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WhatWasIThinkin
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Epping New Hampsha

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knightfire

You do have good points and lots of great input. But engine mods on the Jeep 4.0 I6 for the most part are IMHO a waste of money. There just isnt enough bang for the buck for me, and again if the statements that the aftermarket parts companies were true and accurate as it pertains to real world Jeep ownership then I would be on the mod bandwagon full bore. I myself come from a lifelong racing background. I have a darn good idea of what works and what empties the wallet.

Will I run to the dealer when I smash in my muffler? No.
Will I run to the dealer when my exhaust header cracks? No again.

Both of them will get replaced with aftermarket, and whatever the best of the best gets me. But not untill there at the failure point. I dont see that spending a grand on aftermarket goodies will give me enough hp gains to make them worth my while. The problem lies not so much with the aftermarket parts as it does with the head design on the I6. In stock unmodifyed form, it can only handle just so much air flow. Just changing the size of both the intake and exhaust still dosent change whats going threw the engine. With out porting and bigger valves the I6's air flow is maxed out as it is.

Some engines like the 360ci Mopar Magnum that was available in the 94 to @02 Dodge trucks had awsome heads and intake but that engine was then choked down by DC on both the intake and exhaust side. So on that engine little things like a good aftermarket exhaust, open air breather and a Mopar performance EPU made a huge difference. Then add bored throttle body for more air in and bolt on some good headers and hi-flow cat and roller lifters with a higher ratio and look out....close to 100 more real world HP for a couple thousand bucks. Now were talking gain.
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Code3TJ
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got nothing against engine mods that will really make a difference (I'm all for them), but from experience, I don't want to shorten the engine's life by using a K&N or similar type filter. If you're in an area that isn't dusty, then it'll probably be fine, but I'm out here in dusty, dry CA. Something like a different profile camshaft or ported heads would make me very happy. I just ordered a set of headers to replace my broken manifold. Trust me, I have a 2.5L and I'd do a rain dance if I thought it'd give me more power. Wink
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KnightFire
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Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Location: Hanover, MD

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'm beginning to understand where ya'll are coming from...I will agree with what you all say. I have yet to put a single mod on, where I was like WOW, what a HUGE difference. I guess I'm more of the school that "every little bit counts". I too am an AVID drag racer...so I guess that I search for power where ever I can find it...and work towards the philosphy that the whole overcomes its parts. That make sense?

I think that the only "HOLY CRAP" mod would be stroking' the 4.0L (or saying the hell with it and dropping a LT1 in Smile )...but I will say that with all the little mods I've done (bolt ons) that I truly do feel a difference, I get better mpg (about 19-20mpg on the hwy on 31" tires @~75/80mph) and have more power on the roads for passing. I drive my Friends Rubi all the time and I can definitely tell a power difference between mine and his. I always walk him whenever we go at it...just for grins of course.

My only "arguement" about the K&N type filters, they are designed to trap smaller microns of dirt than the OEM types...I can see how the oil would become a problem...catching too much dirt, clogging the filter and robbing the engine of its air, but I would argue that its doing its job and that you should just clean it more often if you live in an extremely dusty/dry environment or use a pre-filter wrap, especially designed for that purpose.

Like I said, I'm in NO WAY flaming anyone...I guess a difference of opinion is always a good thing to have...I dunno.

Ride on Brohs...


KnightFire
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Last edited by KnightFire on Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:35 am; edited 3 times in total
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Black2001TJ
Leopard Skin
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Joined: 03 Jan 2004

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread, I wanna add some $.02 for the chip though.. I had the Jet Chip for about 2 months and it blew. Nothing special except my gas mileage went down. There may have been something noticeable possibly at 4K RPMs, however, it's a Jeep, it shouldn't be anywhere around there on the highway to much..

Now, when my headers/cat back go up, I'm definitely going with aftermarket, probably Banks.. My reasoning is for the extra power, if I have to replace, why not get some boost. I could really use it on the highway!!
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goflight2
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Joined: 18 Sep 2004

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice guys. I am now out of the engine mod ideas, but for a lift, is it smarter to go with a body lift or a suspension lift or a combo of both? WHat do I give up lifting the jeep? They definately look much cooler lifted, but I would like to keep this thing forever. My local guy also recomended changing the oil with synthetic every 2K, as well as using Chevron midrange gas (never arco). I do have to drive it 25 miles each way to work every day (beautiful day in Socal today, BTW) I sell Toyotas, so I have been getting a bit if sh*t lately for buying it, but oh well!!! Love the forum and your guys help. Thanks. C
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WhatWasIThinkin
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Epping New Hampsha

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Change synth oil every 2000 miles? ? ?

He must make one hell of a commision on synth oil......no way, thats nuts!
He's full of crap.

Run the factory oil for @1500-2000 miles then switch to whatever brand of synth you like. On a brand new engine, I will swap the oil filter after @1000 miles and top of the oil. This is probably unneccasary but it makes me feel better. The reason for this is to remove any sludge that the mineral oil from the factory that may have formed. Even if you run dino oil I wouldnt change it that often.

I run synth oil...Mobil1 w/Mobil1 oil filter. For average typical use dino oil works as well as synth. Where synth realy shines is at the temp extremes and longer life. At cold starts when the temps are -40F synth is still viscious and has maybe just started to jell. At 0 to -10F dino oil can turn to fudge making the engine harder to start and untill it warms enough to melt, this leaves the engine to run "dry". At the other extreme both types of oil can have the same water like viscosity when hot but synth oil again can handle more heat, something like @80 degrees more heat safely. What makes this happen has to do with the molecular chains of oil. Dino oil are random inconsistant strands. Synth oil are consistant modules. This is also relative to oil life. The synth oil will keep the inside of the engine spotless clean too.


As far as gas goes, Im not picky on brands. That seems to be a midwest thing. I have relatives in Ill and they will get into knock down drag out fights over fuel brands rofl damn rednecks Mr. Green

I run the lowest grade as long as my engine dosent start to knock and ping.

As far as lifts go, go ahead and try the search button or look in the Suspension, Tires and Lift section. Lots of good info. Also check out thePhantums OME lift instalation. in the tech area. Its a great write up with lots of pics. I have the same lift with some minor different parts and love it. OME makes some great lifts.
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Last edited by WhatWasIThinkin on Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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WhatWasIThinkin
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Epping New Hampsha

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops I forgot to add

Synth oil can go safley 12000 miles. Amsoil says 35000 but thats longer than I want to go. I change mine every 6000.
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Keithtj
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Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Location: Out of jail now

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too have the Old Man Emu lift with a 1" body lift. Suspension lifts lift the whole vehicle, body lifts, just lift the frame off the body. The rule with body lifts are 1". If you go higher than 1" it's not the safest thing. Imagine walking around with bricks on your head and how your head will wobble.
Take your time and do plenty of research. Also ask as many questions as you want. If i knew then what I know now, I would have been a lot better off with my jeep.
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Code3TJ
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2,000??? shock
Get out your checkbook. Wink
I usually change mine every 6 months but I don't put that many miles on it. If I did, and on the other heaps blocking up my driveway pissing off the neighbors, I change it about every 6,000 miles also.
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KnightFire
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WhatWasIThinkin wrote:
oops I forgot to add

Synth oil can go safley 12000 miles. Amsoil says 35000 but thats longer than I want to go. I change mine every 6000.


With the Amsoil S2000 it is 35k, but with a filter change and adding 1 qt (from replacing filter) at 15k.

If you need anymore info or want to purchase Amsoil, let me know, I just became a dealer.


KnightFire
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