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Need Some Help!


 
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Nathan_Ouimet
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Location: Lompoc, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:11 pm    Post subject: Need Some Help! Reply with quote

Hey, I have recently bought a 1991 Jeep cherokee. I absolutly love the thing. It has soom issues though. It has a rebuilt eng with 45,000 mi. When I start it up it runs geat; good power, good shifting, everything works. But after driving it for a while it starts to lag. It is kind of hard to explain so I will try my best. Okay, for instance, when I go to start from a stop or just stepping on the pedle to excelurate, it does not want to realy go. It will kind of pop and rumble for a bit, and the when the RPMs get to about 2500-3000 it will clear out and then it will really move. The check engine light will come in. It almost seems like it is trying to flud its self out. If I turn it off for 10 min or so and then it will start up and be fine for a bit. I tried getting new cap, roter, spark plugs, and wires, but that did not seem to be a solution. I am still young and don't know a whole lot abou engines, but I am trying. I really do not want to take it to a shop, because I don't have a lot of money. So if some one can possibly help, I would be most thankful.
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ThePhantum
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Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Need Some Help! Reply with quote

It could be a couple of things...but since the check engine light comes on, pull the codes. Cheapest and easiest way is via the key trick: Next time it happens, turn the key to off-on-off-on-off and then on. Make sure you are starting in the OFF position NOT lock. OFF is one notch forward of LOCK. LOCK is the position where you insert and remove the key from. Also, make sure you are not going to START. From OFF, turn one notch forward to ON and then back OFF, then ON, then OFF and then ON and leave in ON. Do this fairly quick, but not so fast. The whole sequence has to be completed within 5 seconds, so a little less than one second in each position will do the trick.

After that the check engine light will stay illuminated for a few seconds then turn off. After about 5 more seconds, it will begin its code sequence. Now just count the flashes. Each code is a two digit code. So for example, a 23 would be FLASH FLASH (pause) FLASH FLASH FLASH (loong pause). You should (key word there is "should") get 3 - 2 digit codes in total, the last code will always be 55, which means "end of sequence".

Post those codes up and we'll take it from there. Wink

HTH

Steve
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Nathan_Ouimet
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Location: Lompoc, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK Awsome. So that was kind of confusing at first but I think I did it right. I did it a few times and got this: 12-34-51-15-54-55. So if that is how it is should look on paper, we are good. Thanks so much. Please let me know what that means.
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ThePhantum
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. First off, here's what all those codes mean.

12 - Battery or computer recently disconnected

34 - Speed control shorted or open

51 - Oxygen sensor stuck at lean position

15 - No speed/distance sensor signal

54 - Camshaft sensor/distributor timing

55 - End of codes

No wories on the first one (12), it just means the battery was disconnected. We'll come back to 34 and 15, since I don't think they are contributing to the problem at hand.

The ones I'm eyeballing are 51 and 54. Taken together, it leads me to believe that the camshaft sensor is bad and the O2 sensor is trying to compensate. I'd start by replacing the camshaft sensor first. Here's the proceedure from the FSM.

Now, for the other two codes (34 & 15)...does it have cruise control? If so does it work? I know you said your dash lights are not working. There might be a short in the cruise system that's taken your dash lights with it.
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Nathan_Ouimet
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Location: Lompoc, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, thanks, as for 12 (the battery) I was messing with the power so that makes sense. 34- yes I do have cruise control, But that has not worked since I have had it. As for 51 and 54, I will try to get I new camshaft sensor tomorrow. I am going on a trip over thr weekend, but I will try to do it before I leave and leave a post before hand. Thanks again for your help!!! headbang
Also where did you get the number info?
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ThePhantum
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a listing that I found a while back and printed out. It was not totally acurate (still isn't) but I made a bunch of notes that have gotten it pretty close. I need type it out, organize it better and post it up...there's a lot of good info there....
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Nathan_Ouimet
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Location: Lompoc, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been doing some reading on a few items. I have found that I do not have the strongest spark in the world and thought that the problem could also be my coil. Is this a bosibility? And also I was wondering if a MSD - 6 Off-Road Ignition Control could fix my weak spark problem and if it was worth the money? The other products I was liking at were performance distributors. Are they worth it? Do these things really make much diference? And also what about spark plugs and wires? Are there ones that you use that help with power?
Just a kid looking for more power!!! Finger
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ThePhantum
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nathan_Ouimet wrote:
I have been doing some reading on a few items. I have found that I do not have the strongest spark in the world and thought that the problem could also be my coil. Is this a bosibility? And also I was wondering if a MSD - 6 Off-Road Ignition Control could fix my weak spark problem and if it was worth the money? The other products I was liking at were performance distributors. Are they worth it? Do these things really make much diference? And also what about spark plugs and wires? Are there ones that you use that help with power?
Just a kid looking for more power!!! Finger


You did not get a 43 code, which would indicate irregular voltage from the coil. Have you tuned it up recently? If not, try that first. New plugs and wires might make all the difference. Wink

On the I6 - ignition boxes, performance distirbutors, etc. don't do that much. Those kind of mods are helpfull when you are looking to maintian extremely high RPM's (5000+) for extended periods of time, such as in a racing application. With Jeeps, it's all about lower RPM's and torque.
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Nathan_Ouimet
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Location: Lompoc, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I have already tried getting new cap, roter, plugs, and wires. But that is it. and also I am looking at the proceedure from the FSM that you made a link for and my conputer brouhgt it up useing acrobat and it seems to be missing some stuff that the progam had trouble reading. Is there a site that I can go directly to?
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ThePhantum
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can try these: Clicky

There's 88 and 00 FSM's there.
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Nathan_Ouimet
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Location: Lompoc, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK so I wipped out my Jeep book and found a section on the Camshaft Position Sensor(CMP). Is this what you are tlaking about? I looks like a CD with a Sync Signal Generator on it with some wires that go to a conector. After that conector the wires procede down to the transmission where it has a camshaft position sensor. So my question is, do I replace both of these or just the on top of the camshaft, or just the one on the trany?
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ThePhantum
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one down by the tranny is actually the Crankshaft Position Sensor. The one you want to change is Camshaft Position Sensor, which is located under the rotor on the distributor.
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Nathan_Ouimet
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Location: Lompoc, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OOOOOOOOOOOO!!! OK, Thanks for clearing that up. Very Happy
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Nathan_Ouimet
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Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Location: Lompoc, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright I can get on and post now. I have replaced the position sensor and the O2 sensor. It is runnig better and it will actually excellerate from a start all the way through the gears. However it is still not running 100%. If it is left to idle for a few min. it will pop and sputter until it gets cleared out. For some reason it is still building up gas when it idles. as long as the RPM's are high it is fine. I took a look at the chart that was posted on pulling the numbers and it seems it could be the MAP sensor. Is this what I should replace? If so do you know the cost of a new one?
-Thanks
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