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Californiajeeper.com's False Jeep History

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98Heep
Genius


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:02 pm    Post subject: Californiajeeper.com's False Jeep History Reply with quote

Californiajeepers.com, your "sister site's" history of Jeep, starts out extremely wrong. It goes on to say Willy's invented the Jeep and leads people to believe Ford, Bantam and Willy's developed independant designs. The author states the Willy's design was the best followed by Ford then Bantam. The author has confused engineering with manufacturing and rather than find the facts, distorts to fill his own gaps in.

The simple truth is that Carl Probst of Bantam, single handedly engineered the first Jeep within a couple of weeks. When they presented their prototype to the Army, Ford and Willy's engineers were present and immediately began taking measurments off of the Bantam prototype with tape measures. Bantam engineered the Jeep but Willy's and Ford produced it.

The Army's demand for Jeeps could not be filled by Willy's small production means so the Army bought the Jeep and by means of national security, gave the production primarily to Willy's. Ford was to meet the remaining production requirement but only if the Jeeps used interchangeable parts. Bantam was screwed with the contract to make trailers.

The first Land Rover was a Jeep that lost it's body after awhile and had it's British owners make their own body.

To really add insult to injury, Jeep designs were handed over by the U.S. Army, to Toyota, during the Korean war. The U.S. Army didn't want to have to ship Jeeps all the way to Korea so they thought it would be great for Toyota to make a similar copy, close by.

It's sad. The greatest line of vehicles was started in such a corrupt way as to not reward the hard work of the people who actually realized it (Bantam). And now there are idiot authors, on the web, pretending to be experts on the subject and filling in their own gaps of knowledge by assuming manufacturing and engineering are the same thing.
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Code3TJ
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Uzbekistan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the initial 1,500 that Ford, Willys and Bantam built that had different designs, used didfferent engines, weighed different amounts were all copies of each other? I guess you're right - they all had 4 wheels. But I always find it interesting when somebody strolls along who knows all about everything that happened 65 years ago.

If you'd like, I can get you in touch with the author of the article which so offended you. And yes, you're right, there sure are a lot of idiots on the web, yourself included. blah
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98Heep
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Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville, FL

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's true there were some differences between the Ford, Willy's, and Bantam prototype, but they were very similar, very compatable, and very stolen from Bantam.

You are protecting your friend's incompetence of reporting fact. You are also one of those people who happen to think that history starts with your birth. Just because YOU or I weren't alive at the time, doesn't mean that time didn't exist and there isn't a paper trail to learn about it.
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Code3TJ
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Uzbekistan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh huh. Incompetence? Idiot? You're scoring a lot of points here with your first few posts. So where are your photos of these renegade engineers with their tape measures? Where's your paper trail? So what, are you an heir to the Bantams? And you needn't tell me about when history began. troll
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98Heep
Genius


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My definition of right and wrong don't change on the basis of whether or not I make money. I am not an heir to Bantam but as a person concerned about right from wrong, I can be bothered by the injustice done by Bantam.

Bantam was not, and currently is not, given what they deserve as the rightful engineers of Jeep: they aren't in business are they? If they had gotten the deserved contract, there is a good chance they would be in business today. If they still couldn't survive, it would be thier own fault.

Instead of solely listening to me, if you are so curious, why don't you learn how to do a thing called research. There is information out there. In fact, you should compel your history-rewriting-friend to learn with you.
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ehirner
Moderator
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

98Heep wrote:
Instead of solely listening to me, if you are so curious, why don't you learn how to do a thing called research. There is information out there.

So what are your sources? Why don't you write a history of Jeep and we'll put that one up too...complete with primary sources.
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98Heep
Genius


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't have to look very hard to find information. I'm also not going to do your work for you. I am just curious to see if the issue will become one of admitting the truth or attempting to save face and compromise honesty and integrity.

These are primary:

http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=40144&AID=10273739&PID=1334648&afsrc=1

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Jeep_Man/bantam.htm

These show there are more than just me who share this understanding:

http://members.aol.com/brimiljeep/WebPages/JeepNamePage.html#JeepOrigins

http://www.ww2forums.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001349

http://www.howardhannarealestaterealtypittsburghrealtorrealitylistingpa.com/bantam_jeep.htm

http://b3.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1102437916&user=georgepllard

That was after approximately 10 min. of searching the web. I'm sure there is more out there. I am not an expert and spelled Karl Probst's name with a C rather than a K so it took me awhile to find things. I'm not an expert but seem to have a better understanding of Jeep development than my not-so-swift freinds disputing me. Very Happy
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ehirner
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

98Heep wrote:
I didn't have to look very hard to find information. I'm also not going to do your work for you. I am just curious to see if the issue will become one of admitting the truth or attempting to save face and compromise honesty and integrity.

That was after approximately 10 min. of searching the web. I'm sure there is more out there. I am not an expert and spelled Karl Probst's name with a C rather than a K so it took me awhile to find things. I'm not an expert but seem to have a better understanding of Jeep development than my not-so-swift freinds disputing me. Very Happy

I see....so you care enough to come here and get your panties ruffled, yet don't want to produce your own work.

I could care less what the correct history is. But if someone's going to come here and spout off about the history being incorrect, yet not have the desire to produce a historically accurate account, then you're not worth my time and effort.

If you don't like it, fix it. Otherwise, shove off. We didn't write the article...perhaps you should take it up with the author.
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Code3TJ
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Uzbekistan

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I'll delve into your links later when I have more time, but from what I've read of them so far, I haven't seen anything saying that the Bantam plans were stolen. Don't spam my board trying to sell a History channel videotape and trust me, I'm not your friend.

On reflection, are you pissed off because your great-grand daddy Karl Probst isn't listed on the CA Jeeper page?

Quote:
The first Land Rover was a Jeep that lost it's body after awhile and had it's British owners make their own body.

Oh yeah, I hope you're also trolling all Land Rover sites since I'm sure you feel that Probst was also terribly violated by them. Rolling Eyes
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themajor
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Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Location: Cucumber MN

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bantam never designes or built the" Jeep" . Bantam\Probst designed and built what was named the "Combat Car". Get your shit straight.
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98Heep
Genius


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my last post I stated I was curious to see if the issue will become one of admitting the truth or attempting to save face and compromise honesty and integrity. It seems that even with my proof, you clowns have chosen the later.

It is not my job to correct the website: I didn't write it. I am not the one who has messed up and put out false information. But now I have an ex-Soviet (the Soviets were brilliant at rewriting history during the cold war) and a discussion board moderator defending untruths. If I write something, I at least do the correct thing and make sure it is the truth or let people know I am not completely sure about it. After displaying my facts and refusal to believe, it looks like you guys have a pride level that periodically leads you to lying.

The history channel video has an ABSOLUTE expert who will tell you the plans were stolen: not coincidentally similar, and not borrowed.
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98Heep
Genius


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Location: Gainesville, FL

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I in the twilight zone? Are you people really that stupid? Jeeps were engineered and produced long before there was the nickname Jeep. Calling it the "combat car" is similar to the slow transition of name development the Hummer has more recently gone through.
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Keithtj
ARLI$$
ARLI$$


Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Location: Out of jail now

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please leave and don't come back.
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Code3TJ
Hacker
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Uzbekistan

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You speak the truth? You call me an ex-soviet? Why don't you take a minute and pull your head out of your ass. Wait, that's right, you know everything. rofl
Yeah, you're in the twilight zone so why don't you go and crawl back under whatever rock you came out of dipshit. Go spread your truths elsewhere. In fact, I have another place you can go spead your truth. Enjoy yourself while you're there but I don't think they'll tolerate your trolling ass quite as long as I have. In other words, fawk off.
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CoreyXJ
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Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Location: Louisville, KY

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

98Heep -
We all appreciate your insight here on Jeep Horizons. History cannot be changed no matter what. If plans were stolen, borrowed, designs ripped off from one company to another, projects closed, moved or reassigned.... Its all HISTORY.
You are new to the board - whats your purpose in writing about the history of Jeep when no one "really" knows?? You have managed to anger most of us in 4 or 5 posts because you seem to be on some sort of personal agenda to right the wrongs that were made 65 years ago?!?!?
I think if you are trying to get recognition for being the one to "discredit" the history of Jeep maybe you should start by contacting Daimler/Chrysler and pitch your story to them.

We are just people who like thier Jeeps and like to wheel them.... We don't really care about the history behind them.

CoreyXJ
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