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D44 in front??

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danny4by4
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Joined: 01 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:41 am    Post subject: D44 in front?? Reply with quote

Hi everyone, hope someone can help me with this one: Why ONLY upgrade the rear d35 to a d44 (or ford 8.Cool, why not slap in a d44 in the front as well? I know an XJ d44 can be found 87 an up models with towing package but where could I find a front D44 that would fit an 89 XJ? ....and if it could be found would there be drastic mods involved?

AND.... do the gears in each (the front and back) differentials have to be identical?

thanx
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WhatWasIThinkin
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Epping New Hampsha

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D44 in the front is a great idea. Im thinking that most concern themselves with the rear axle due to it getting most of the abuse offroad. During any kind of climbing it gets stressed way more than the front axle.


As far as gears go you want to be numerically the same front to rear. But due to the slight size diferences from front to rear rings and pinions some minor numeric size is acceptable...ie: 4.10rear 4.11 front or viseversa. Combo's like 3.07 front and 3.73, 4.11, or 4.88 rears absoluetly wont work.
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danny4by4
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Joined: 01 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the info....would yu happen to know of a make/model of d44 that would fit a 89 xj?
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ehirner
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The D30 is actually a good axle up through 33s, 35s if built nicely and can handle 37s with a light right foot. That's why you don't see a lot of D30 swapping. One upgrade that is done frequently, at least for TJ Wrangers, is the high pinion D30 or HP30 for short. It's been estimated to have 30% more strength then a low pinion D30 due to using the drive side of the ring gear rather than the coast side. These are pulled from XJs. What that means is that you've already got the HP30 in your XJ (unless it is 99-01 which commonly have LP30).

Regarding what front D44s are available....the Rubicon front D44 is a valid swap. However, I would caution you as the Rubicon 44 is low pinion and is not much different from the XJ/TJ D30 outside of the differential. The tubes, C's, knuckles, hubs, outer shafts, etc. are shared between the two axles.

A great upgrade would be a South American XJ HP44. They are extremely hard to come by and when you do find one, they're expensive. You could check with EMS Offroad ( www.emsoffroad.com IIRC) as I remember seeing HP44 housings for sale. Setup for an XJ/TJ, they were as low as $750.
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danny4by4
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you say 30% more strength...do you mean strength in terms of pulling (torque) capacity OR, do you mean in terms of resistance to breakage during FLEX...i.e.ruggedness?????????

How easy would it be to swap in a D44 in front? Are there LOTS of difficult (and $$$$$expensive) mods involved or is it fairly easy?

Also, there are no stock XJ's with a d44 in FRONT.....so where (on what vehicle) could I find one that would fit? Would it have the same bolt pattern as the rear.... which hasn't (YET) been upgraded to d44?

thanx again for the info guys..and\or gals
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ehirner
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danny4by4 wrote:
When you say 30% more strength...do you mean strength in terms of pulling (torque) capacity OR, do you mean in terms of resistance to breakage during FLEX...i.e.ruggedness?????????
It's rumored to be 30% stronger. You're question is the same but from two different angles. Is the glass half full or half empty?

Quote:
How easy would it be to swap in a D44 in front? Are there LOTS of difficult (and $$$$$expensive) mods involved or is it fairly easy?
It depends on how much work you want to do and pay to have done. You can shorten an HP44 from a mid-70s F-150 but you'll also have a different bolt pattern. You could run it full width with deeply backspaced wheels. You could swap in a LP44 from a Rubicon. It's identical to an HP30 aside from the center section and of similar strength with less clearance and it's about $300 less to build from a rough estimate.

Quote:
Also, there are no stock XJ's with a d44 in FRONT.....so where (on what vehicle) could I find one that would fit? Would it have the same bolt pattern as the rear.... which hasn't (YET) been upgraded to d44?

Quote:
A great upgrade would be a South American XJ HP44. They are extremely hard to come by and when you do find one, they're expensive. You could check with EMS Offroad ( www.emsoffroad.com IIRC) as I remember seeing HP44 housings for sale. Setup for an XJ/TJ, they were as low as $750.

I'm guessing you missed all that the first time around.
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danny4by4
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got those info's but I mean are there any required mods as in shock perch relocation, swaybar extension or alteration, brake line mods,...steering mods.....aside from the work on the axle itself..do the coils sit nicely where they are supposed to? Do you know by chance of anyone who did this sort of transplant?
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ehirner
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XJ and TJ axles are direct bolt-in swaps from one to another.
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danny4by4
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, i've encountered a problem...CONFLICTING INFO!!

I really do appreciate this advice but now i consulted shop that specializes in extreme jeep mods and THEY say THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FRONT D44 THAT IS DIRECTLY BOLT ON into an XJ.
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ehirner
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

danny4by4 wrote:
OK, i've encountered a problem...CONFLICTING INFO!!

I really do appreciate this advice but now i consulted shop that specializes in extreme jeep mods and THEY say THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FRONT D44 THAT IS DIRECTLY BOLT ON into an XJ.

The HP44s were only found in South American XJs. Did you not read that? They are extremely hard to come across in the US and when you do, you pay a premium for them. A wheeling buddy was in Venezuela on a business trip and had two front XJ HP44s imported. They do exist.

Have you contacted EMS Offroad like I suggested? Also, AEV Conversions was using the HP44s in some of their conversions. A member here, Bumpy, posted some pics of his Rubicon he had AEV work over. He has an HP44 up front that is identical to the South American XJ HP44s. Try contacting them.

A Rubicon front 44 will bolt directly into an XJ. The TJ and XJ share the same front suspension and bracketry. Keep in mind, it is low pinion and you would be better off keeping the HP30 that you likely already have. The only benefit the Rubi 44 would give you is the ability to run gears numerically higher than 4.88s.

If that's your shop's best advice, you may want to start patronizing a different business because they don't know what the hell they're talking about.
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danny4by4
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

first off, I completely covered the entire EMS website...beautiful work...HOWEVER, i can neither,visit or buy because i'm from MONTREAL CANADA....a little far to go get pieces...so calling and harrassing them with questions about mods might not be the best idea.

Second:Your info is GREAT I don't doubt for a second that there is an EXTREMELY RARE AND EXPENSIVE bolt-on d44 FROM HALF WAY ACROSS THE GLOBE. Unfortunately, SOUTH AMERICA is also a little too far for pieces.

I need REALISTIC OPTIONS as I am neither excessively rich nor a master mechanic.

All people\shops I asked agreed that the rubicon d44 was bolt-on but not really a huge advantage...

Well, unfornately the fact is THERE IS alot of contradicting info on the web....I'm not accusing....just trying to learn as much as i can....dont get offended...just give me yur version....


cheers!
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99TJ
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Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Location: Denver

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Rubicon 44 front axle would be the best choice for you. It is true that the tube diameter and thickness, knuckles, u-joints, ball-joints, outer shafts, and hubs are the same as the D30. So, this upgrade basically gives you a stronger center housing, stronger gears and carrier, and stronger inner shafts. Pinion and carrier bearings will also be larger.

As far as compatibility, the suspension bracketry (spring pads, shock mounts, upper and lower control arm mounts, sway bar end link mounts, and trac bar mount) on the Rubicon front is the same as every other TJ / XJ. Your D30 outer shafts, knuckles / ball-joints, hubs, and brakes can be moved over to the new housing.

The only "mod" that you would need to do is possibly shorten your front driveshaft (due to the longer D44 housing) and convert it to a 1330 joint at the pinion end. TJ / XJ uses 1310 joints, Rubicon uses 1330. Other than that it would be 100% bolt on.
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fishjrl
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Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Location: Canton, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

look at 4wd.com i think they sell d44 swap in front axles
or maybe it was quadratec.com

i found them for my jeep zj and i think they have them for xj
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Brad The Best
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Location: Kamloops B.C Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i herd the 06 and newer dana 44 out of the rubicon's are stronger then the previous units by alot , but thats just what i herd ehirner knows what he's talking about so if he conflicts that i would go with his statement .


there are several company's that make kits with all the braketry for a xj to weld on to a dana 44 . tnt and dynatrac comes to mind .

its not horribly expensive to get it shortened if you can find a company with a jig , its cheep to get say ford9" done because there are more jigs out there , currie will shorten a rear 9" for about 150$ .

the older low pinion 44 out of a Rubicon seems like a waste of time .
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ehirner
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad The Best wrote:
i herd the 06 and newer dana 44 out of the rubicon's are stronger then the previous units by alot , but thats just what i herd ehirner knows what he's talking about so if he conflicts that i would go with his statement .

The 03-06 Rubicon 44s are all the same. Nothing changed over the years. You're talking about the upgraded 44s in the 07+ JK Rubicons. These axles are also wider than XJ/YJ/TJ axles as well as a different bolt pattern and not a direct bolt-in swap. The bracketry is different.
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