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Dynatrac iron 44 + ABS


 
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nixt
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Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta/Athens, Georgia

PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 2:28 pm    Post subject: Dynatrac iron 44 + ABS Reply with quote

I hate to keep beating the rear axle swap subject to death, but I came across some new information about a replacement rear axle. I spoke to a Dynatrac rep today over the phone and I asked him about a replacement axle for the aluminum 44 for the rear of my 98 ZJ 5.9. He said that if I shipped the aluminum 44 out of my ZJ to him he could build me a replacement (iron) 44 axle that would be totally compatible with all of the systems currently on my Jeep and that that the ABS system would be fully functional. The only real difference in operation of the axle would be that I would need to have an aftermarket locker or limited slip installed in place of the O.E. one. He said that he needed my axle to swap out the sensors on my axle to the replacement axle. Since my Jeep is my only vehicle and therefore my daily driver, he said that if I could find a rear axle out of another ZJ with the same specs (same year, brakes, axle ratio, etc...) and send that out to him, I wouldn't have to remove my axle and be left without a ride. This is the first time that any axle builder that I have spoken to has said that they can make me an axle that will work with my ABS. Does anyone know of any other axle builders that can build a replacement axle that would be ABS compatible? I want to try to keep my Jeep's on road handling as close to stock as possible since it is my only ride. Or does anyone else have experience with dealing with the ABS after an axle swap? Such as: if the rear ABS is disabled does the front ABS still work, or do you have to totally ditch the ABS after the swap? Furthermore, if you have swapped out your rear axle and ditched the ABS, how is the braking affected? The Dynatrac swap is a big chunk of change-around $4,000 and I wanted to know if it is worth it just to keep my ABS. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
-nixt
_________________
1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited W/242 swap
JKS disconnects & Garmin GPS
Heavy duty OME Suspension kit
with 2" coil spacers for 3.5-3.75 total lift
235/85R16 Goodyear MTR's Measure a true 32"

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But Death Has Its Price.
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swamp boy
Cherokee Muderator
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: New Orleans LA.

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For that kind of money ... I would probobly get a Dana 60 built instead..

Thats alot of money for a 44... Try sunray engineering or I have heard that you can make an 8.8's ABS system work with the Grand.. I will see if I can find the writeup for it...

8.8 has stronger axle shafts and axle tubes.. So it is really a better axle... I will see what I can find...
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Code3TJ
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Location: Uzbekistan

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a write-up on the 8.8 and ABS - some food for thought. And yes, that seems like a lot of work and money for a Dana 44. Wink
http://www.links4jeeps.com/link.php?id=1283
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nixt
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Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta/Athens, Georgia

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 10:43 pm    Post subject: iron 44 Reply with quote

I've read about the 8.8 swap before, I was just interested in the Dynatrac axles because they were the first company to admit to me that it is possible to do an axle swap and have the ABS system still work. I don't think the $4,000 price was anything more than an estimate off the top of his head. The Dynatrac website even lists that many of their axles from the 44, 60, 70, and 80 are all compatible with the stock ABS system. When I called Rockcrusher, they stated flat out that there was no way for the ABS to work. To be honest, if I had my way I would go for the Ford 9 inch as a swap. But is there that much difference in the 9" versus the 8.8"? I've seen some swaps where an older explorer axle is used with drum brakes and when they are swapped for discs, you lose the parking brake because generally front discs are used.
The 8.8 write-up says that making the ABS is a pain in the ass, but it is possible. That would lead me to believe that I could probably get a junkyard 9" and have it rebuilt to my own specs and have the ABS rings pressed on. But is the 8.8 a better swap than the 9? I really only thought of the iron 44 since I figured it would be easier to make the ABS work since it is similar to the axle already under my Jeep. By the way, If I do ditch the aluminum 44 for a Ford 8.8 or 9" (or even the dynatrac 44 for that matter) what kind of problems will I run into with my lift and driveshaft? Do you generally need a new driveshaft after an axle swap? I'm asking this because I just got the lift installed.
On a totally different subject, is this Aussie Locker that I've heard rumors about for the aluminum 44 in any way an acceptable stopgap or alternative measure to swapping the rear axle? Thanks for your help.
-nixt

By the way, one of the reasons that I'm looking for a new rear axle is that I've just gotten my NP 249 transfer case replaced with a 242 transfer case that allows me to run in two wheel drive, and I'm running 235/85R16 Goodyear MT/R's (roughly 32" in diameter). I'm planning on a few engine mods to give me a little under 400lb/ft of torque so I'm guessing that the aluminum 44 won't really be able to handle the torque from my heavy right foot.
_________________
1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited W/242 swap
JKS disconnects & Garmin GPS
Heavy duty OME Suspension kit
with 2" coil spacers for 3.5-3.75 total lift
235/85R16 Goodyear MTR's Measure a true 32"

Life has No Value,
But Death Has Its Price.
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Code3TJ
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Location: Uzbekistan

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 9" will require that you shorten your driveshaft and will likely cost quite a bit more than the 8.8. If the 8.8 comes with drum brakes, I wouldn't bother with it as the disc brake version is very common. Also, I believe the drum brake version has 28 spline axles vs. the 31 spline on the Exploder version. As long as you set up the axle the with the spring perches, shock mounts, etc in the correct locations, it shouldn't affect your lift. However, if you go with an axle that has a longer (or shorter) "snout" than what you currently have, you'll need to have your driveshaft length changed accordingly.
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nixt
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Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta/Athens, Georgia

PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject: iron 44 Reply with quote

Since I still have the slip yoke on the driveshaft going into my transfer case, can you give me an idea of how much play or margin of error I have before I've got to worry about the driveshaft slipping out? Or am I already pushing the limits of it with 3.5" of lift?
-nixt
_________________
1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited W/242 swap
JKS disconnects & Garmin GPS
Heavy duty OME Suspension kit
with 2" coil spacers for 3.5-3.75 total lift
235/85R16 Goodyear MTR's Measure a true 32"

Life has No Value,
But Death Has Its Price.
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swamp boy
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Location: New Orleans LA.

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont forget that the 9" has a different bolt pattern as well.. Its 5 on 5.5 versus 8.8's 5 on 4.5..

And the 9" is several inches wider...

I guess its all about how much you want to spend .. Money and time wise..

If you want a 44 and ABS you can do it.. And Dynatrac will definatly build it for you..
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nixt
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Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta/Athens, Georgia

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Aluminum 44 Reply with quote

I've just been reading some posts on other websites about options for the aluminum 44 rear axle in the ZJ. I came across a few threads about changing out the centersection of the aluminum 44 but I haven't found any estimates on the cost to do the swap. The two that I've read about are the GM 12 bolt centersection and the iron Dana 44. Apparently, you get to keep the axle tubes, shafts, brakes, spring and shock connections, as well as the sensors on the axle for the ABS system from your existing rear axle. Has anyone heard of this swap? I don't know if it is really any cheaper than swapping out the entire axle since you have to come up with a salvaged centersection anyway. The references to the iron 44 centersection swap were from custom shops without web addresses. The 12-bolt swap was supposedly done by StageWest 4x4 and they do have a website but don't have any cost information on their site about it. Other than the centersection swap the only other option I've seen for improving the aluminum 44 is the automatic locking Aussie Locker. The Aussie only costs $249.99 but it says it must be installed in an open differential and it won't work if you've got the factory limited slip, so that isn't an option for me. I'm beginning to lean toward the Ford 8.8" instead of the 9" as long as I can find a local shop that can swap over all of the sensors on the axle. However, if the 12-bolt center is a viable and affordable option I believe that is the way I would want to go.
-nixt
_________________
1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited W/242 swap
JKS disconnects & Garmin GPS
Heavy duty OME Suspension kit
with 2" coil spacers for 3.5-3.75 total lift
235/85R16 Goodyear MTR's Measure a true 32"

Life has No Value,
But Death Has Its Price.
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swamp boy
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Location: New Orleans LA.

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are you located in Ga. I know a few people in various parts of Ga. ..

I can probobly put you in touch with someone that can do the 8.8 for you..


Unless you want to drive to NO and then I can do it for you...
Mr. Green
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nixt
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Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta/Athens, Georgia

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 7:46 pm    Post subject: Aluminum 44 Reply with quote

Swampy,
I currently live kind of like a nomad but I just updated my profile to show my location. Four days a week I work in Atlanta and I live in with relatives just outside the perimeter of Atlanta. I go to school at UGA in Athens and stay at my apartment there the other three. The next semester starts up in the beginning of June so I'll start making the commute from one city to the other each morning. The commute takes about an hour and I would estimate it is around 50 miles one way so I'm burning up quite a bit of 91 octane.
There is a shop that specializes in 4 wheel drive vehicles near where I live in Atlanta that has done some work for me called Rileys Four Wheel Drive. They mainly do parts installation and service work but they told me that they do have the ability to do custom fabrication and axle swaps. I've also been to a shop in Athens (the name escapes me) but I haven't had them do any work on my Jeep- I've only purchased parts from them. I don't think that either shop would have a tremendous amount of trouble with swapping out the aluminum 44 for another axle, but I would like to deal with someone that has done a ZJ axle swap before. In the link that Code3TJ posted earlier in the thread it said it was possible to install the proper sensors on the new axle for the ABS to work. I don't know if either shop could do that since it seems rather difficult. I'd like to use someone that has knowledge, ability, or experience to do the swap since I'd like to keep the ABS and the current street manners of my Jeep since I've got to drive it everyday on that long commute. If you could give me references to anyone in Georgia I'd appreciate it. I would be willing to drive as far South as Columbus to get the job done right.
-nixt
_________________
1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited W/242 swap
JKS disconnects & Garmin GPS
Heavy duty OME Suspension kit
with 2" coil spacers for 3.5-3.75 total lift
235/85R16 Goodyear MTR's Measure a true 32"

Life has No Value,
But Death Has Its Price.


Last edited by nixt on Fri May 19, 2006 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nixt
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Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta/Athens, Georgia

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 8:46 pm    Post subject: Aluminum 44 Reply with quote

I've got a few more questions regarding the ford 8.8" axle and how I should set it up before I get it installed. I know my posts are long winded and I'm sorry for all the questions but I want to get this right the first time. Therefore, I've put my questions in all caps. My 5.9 ZJ came with the factory limited slip and 3.73 gears. The stock tire size was 225/70R16 with a diameter of 28.5". Now I've got 235/85R16 tires with a diameter of 32". When I swap out the axle I'd like to install a new gearset to improve fuel economy and performance (or at least bring it back to what it was before the increase in tire size). WHAT GEARSET SHOULD I USE TO COMPENSATE FOR THE 3.5" INCREASE IN TIRE SIZE? I'd also like some recommendations for a traction aid for the 8.8". I've never driven a vehicle with an auto-locker but I've heard that they can increase wear on components and change the driving characteristics. However, since I've got so much torque I don't really want to use a manual locker since it runs open during street driving and I'd be spinning the hell out of one wheel. I DONíT REMEMBER WHERE, BUT IíVE READ ABOUT LOCKERS THAT RUN AS A LIMITED SLIP UNTIL YOU LOCK THEM- ARE THERE AFTERMARKET LOCKERS LIKE THIS OR ARE THEY JUST AVAILABLE AS FACTORY EQUIPMENT ON NEW VEHICLES? Also, since I'll be cracking open the front Dana 30 to match the gears to the rear 8.8 I'm thinking of adding a manual locker. IS THAT A WISE IDEA? I've heard that running a front locker is a great way to break axle parts.
I'm going to save up my money to do the axle swap, gear change, and locker install all at once to save on labor costs and the down time for which I won't have a ride and I'll have to pay for a rental car. I know I can find an 8.8" at a salvage yard either at a national chain like Greenleaf or an independent one. This brings me to another question: IS THERE A PARTICULAR TYPE OF 8.8" I SHOULD LOOK FOR? I NOW KNOW TO AVOID THE ONES WITH DRUM BRAKES BUT DO I NEED TO LOOK FOR ONE WITH AN OPEN DIFFERENTIAL TO ADD A LOCKER? IíM NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT TYPE OF LIMITED SLIPS THAT FORD USES BUT IF IT IS ANY GOOD COULD I JUST STICK WITH THE FORD LIMITED SLIP AND WILL IT FUNCTION PROPERLY IN MY JEEP? I am really thankful for all of the suggestions and help in answering my questions. Once again, any help would be appreciated.
-nixt
_________________
1998 ZJ 5.9 Limited W/242 swap
JKS disconnects & Garmin GPS
Heavy duty OME Suspension kit
with 2" coil spacers for 3.5-3.75 total lift
235/85R16 Goodyear MTR's Measure a true 32"

Life has No Value,
But Death Has Its Price.
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