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Dual electric fans

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DavidXJ
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Location: Visalia, CA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:10 pm    Post subject: Dual electric fans Reply with quote

I am replacing the stock clutch-fan setup on my 1998 with an electric 16" perma-cool fan (2950 cfm). I have a fan relay from Painless wiring, and a temperature sender. The problem is, I have no idea where to mount the temperature sender since the only port for the sensor is already taken by the tempeture sender for the aux. fan and gauge. I have four ideas and would like feedback as to whether or not they would work.
First, I could put a splice in the heater hose right after the t-stat housing and put a piece in there to mount the tempeture sender.
Second, is there a place on the engine somewhere else that already has a port for a sender?
Third, could I tap off the existing sender to control a second relay which then controls the fan?
Fourth, (and I don't think this will handle the amps), could the existing relay power both fans so I don't even need to deal with wiring up a new relay? Let me know.
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bumpkin
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theres probably another tapped hole in the block or head that would work. In my other car I found one in the block after using the holes in the manifold. They aren't always close to the front of the block though. If the holes in the block are to big, use a threaded brass bushing from a hardware store to reduce to the size you need. Works primo

You could also do your fourth option, using a second relay. Since you've already got the "trigger" wire to one relay, it wouldn't be hard to splice that trigger wire to another relay. The downside is you fan would come on at the same temp as the aux fan. The new sensor might be on and off at different temps.
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DavidXJ
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Location: Visalia, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea of tapping off the trigger wire for the existing relay to control a second relay. If I understand it correctly, the relay only needs a very small current to "open" it, so the existing trigger wire could supply sufficient volts? Do you think it would be a very big deal if both fans came on with the AC all the time?
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88WOWJ
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Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Hinesville Ga

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Coolant switch Location Reply with quote

Why not purchase the 1991 XJ thermostat housing that will bolt right in place of the 1988.About $15.00 from the dealer. The T stat housing has
a threaded hole for a coolant switch for that year. I did this to my
1988 Wagoneer last year.Works great.
_________________
1988 Wagoneer Limited XJ Tellico Tested
Rocklizards panels, Tomken rear bumper and front Tow brackets, Rocket air intake, 2 inch lift,
30x950x15, 1991 coolant system with electric fans, 8,000 mile marker winch
1991 Cherokee Limited
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bumpkin
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd do the new housing, I wouldn't have a problem with two fans on for a/c but you might want the main fan to come on at a lower temp than the aux fan. What temp will the aux fan come on at now? Or is it just with a/c?
Mine doesn't work (a/c or fan) so I don't know.
I would think the aux fan comes in as a backup if the temp gets too high, thats why I'm thinking run them off seperate temp switches.

DavidXJ is right about the relay, it only takes something like 1 volt to close the contact, maybe less. You could also switch the ground for the relay through a toggle in the cab, in case you wanted absolute control to shut it down. Might be handy sometime, probably only cost a buck.
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88WOWJ
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Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Hinesville Ga

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Dual Electric Fans Reply with quote

My 1988 Wagoneer XJ had a serous overheating problem back in 2004
with the closed cooling system. So I changed to the open system radiator
and removed the stock fan and fan clutch. When I pruchased the new rad
I found that the rad had a plug for my condenser fan. That illiminated one
problem. The second was the new fan. I selected a Hadon 14 inch fan.
Pulls 1400 cfm. The second problem was the shaft for the pulley which
I cut off but was still able to go back stock if need be. Wiring the switch
was not difficult. My switch is from a 1990 Nissan 240sx lower rad hose.
The switch was removed from the hose and mounted in the Cherokee
T/ stat housing. I use a Nissan relay to control the fan. The fan comes on
at 185 degrees and goes off at 185 degrees. My condenser fan comes on
at 206 degrees. Remember the ac/condenser fan is a pusher fan and is not recommended for major cooling. It is just a backup. the only problem
to some people is the fan stays running long after the engine is turned off.
But I love it. After almost two years my engine temp has not exceeded 206 degrees regardless of traffic or offroad condition.
_________________
1988 Wagoneer Limited XJ Tellico Tested
Rocklizards panels, Tomken rear bumper and front Tow brackets, Rocket air intake, 2 inch lift,
30x950x15, 1991 coolant system with electric fans, 8,000 mile marker winch
1991 Cherokee Limited
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DavidXJ
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Location: Visalia, CA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Cherokee is a 1998 and already has a port on the t-stat housing, and that's the one taken by the existing sender. This makes me wonder though... if the pre-1991 Cherokees don't have a port for the sender in the t-stat housing, then where do they put it and does that location still exist in later models like my 1998? I just replaced my radiator w/ a 3-core type, and it doesn't have any ports on it at all (I broke an engine mount and that allowed the engine to jam the stock fan into the radiator... which is what ticked me off and started this whole electric fan conversion in the fist place). I don't want to go with one of those "probe type" senders because they just use a wierd spacer thing and stick in the radiator hose. To be honest, I haven't done a real thorough check of the engine block yet, so there may be some other port that I haven't found yet, but is just covered with 1/4 inch of grease.
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88WOWJ
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Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Hinesville Ga

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:43 pm    Post subject: Dual electric fans Reply with quote

In 1987-1990 the switch to cut on the electric ac condensor fan was located in the left side of the radiator. This switch was a backup for the cooling system. The switch will activate the fan around 205-210. May very on all models. In 1991 to present the cooling switch was moved to the
thermostat housing. This switch will activate the fan 215-225. This switch works with the computer only. As the previous years had no computer control for the fan.
_________________
1988 Wagoneer Limited XJ Tellico Tested
Rocklizards panels, Tomken rear bumper and front Tow brackets, Rocket air intake, 2 inch lift,
30x950x15, 1991 coolant system with electric fans, 8,000 mile marker winch
1991 Cherokee Limited
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DavidXJ
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Location: Visalia, CA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I haven't found another port to put the tempeture sender in, so here is my final solution. I think it would be much better if the new electric fan is simply controlled by its own tempeture sender that has nothing to do with the computer. So I am going to splice into the "feed" line of the heater hose right after it comes out of the water pump. I will put a tee in the line and put the tempeture sender in that, with a screw for a ground line welded onto the tee (the sender needs to be grounded if I'm not mistaken). This seems to be the simplest solution that doen't require drilling and tapping or other more serious modifications. This way I can get a sender that comes on at a little lower temps... say 195 degrees.
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935speedxj
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Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Location: pittsburgh pa

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey guys i have this problem to... my aux fan dont work an i want to yank the clutch fan how can i get them to work together ir one on all the time an another at like 190-195? what sender do i need ect my aux fan does work but doesent workby its self u have to jump at the fan or the relay to get it to come on but it does work...... i was hopein that i could get rid of my clutch fan ...an another thing guys...? do you guys know why my 93 xj wont idle until it is warm.... when it warms up it idles just fine but until then is is a PITA.... thanks guys ~ phil
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DavidXJ
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Location: Visalia, CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

935speedxj...
I am not sure what you're asking. If your stock auxilary fan doesn't work, that is a problem. Hopefully not the computer. It should go on and off with your AC pump or when your jeep gets pretty hot. I don't think it would come on until the tempereture reached 215 or hotter. I considered making my aux fan and my new electric fan work together and turn off and on at the same time, but decided that is a bad idea. First of all, the aux fan is controlled through the computer, and I didn't want to mess with that at all. Second, the aux fan is only meant to come on if the temperature gets a little hotter than normal. Third, it is easier to simply wire the new electric fan up with its own temperature sender spliced into the "feed" heater hose (as long as you can find the proper plumbing parts). Remember, getting rid of the clutch fan isn't easy. But if you are capable of fabricating some parts and do some research, it's not so bad. I will write a review of my electric fan swap after this reply.
Oh, and I have no idea why your jeep won't idle properly until it's warm. It could be many different sensors, the computer, the idle control motor... sorry. And maybe I'm just inexperienced in computer or text message jargon, but what the heck is PITA? Good, bad?
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c130herc
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Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Location: North Texas

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidXJ wrote:
And maybe I'm just inexperienced in computer or text message jargon, but what the heck is PITA? Good, bad?


Pain in the arse
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935speedxj
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Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Location: pittsburgh pa

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavidXJ wrote:
935speedxj...
I am not sure what you're asking. If your stock auxilary fan doesn't work, that is a problem. Hopefully not the computer. It should go on and off with your AC pump or when your jeep gets pretty hot. I don't think it would come on until the tempereture reached 215 or hotter. I considered making my aux fan and my new electric fan work together and turn off and on at the same time, but decided that is a bad idea. First of all, the aux fan is controlled through the computer, and I didn't want to mess with that at all. Second, the aux fan is only meant to come on if the temperature gets a little hotter than normal. Third, it is easier to simply wire the new electric fan up with its own temperature sender spliced into the "feed" heater hose (as long as you can find the proper plumbing parts). Remember, getting rid of the clutch fan isn't easy. But if you are capable of fabricating some parts and do some research, it's not so bad. I will write a review of my electric fan swap after this reply.
Oh, and I have no idea why your jeep won't idle properly until it's warm. It could be many different sensors, the computer, the idle control motor... sorry. And maybe I'm just inexperienced in computer or text message jargon, but what the heck is PITA? Good, bad?


well one thing is it is a stick an my clutch fan runs off of a pully an is not bolted to the water pump like alot are...an i have no ac... compressor is still there but i gutted every other component for the ac.. in the process of makein the ac compressor a air compressor....an besides that ... everything for that fan is good but i do not know how to check if it is the computer... i cant find one to swap it with bein mine is a stick an they are different... i am pretty much mechanicaly inclined but there is still stuff i dont know an alot to do with electrical systems i dont like to get into....basic stuff im good with but that is it.....
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DavidXJ
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Location: Visalia, CA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best thing to do if you want to do this conversion is look up the website Gojeep.com. Their site helped me out a lot, and has a few different ideas. The website is by some Australian dude, so some of the things are reversed, but they have a link to an American's write-up that helps also.

I tried to do a summary of my conversion, but I think it was too many words and kept kicking me off when I tried to submit, so I think looking up their sites is the easiest.
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DavidXJ
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Location: Visalia, CA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I just had an idea, so I'm replying again.

Since you don't use your AC pump for AC, then it doesn't really matter if the fan kicks on and off with the pump. So if you convert to dual electric fans, have the stock electric fan kick on and off with the signal from the new temperature sender you would install for the new fan. Each fan would need its own relay, but the signal could activate both. This way, it doesn't matter whether the computer is sending screwy signals or not, since they cost like $400 to replace (and would need to be formatted by someone with the proper equipment, I believe, if changed).

If you don't plan on switching to dual fans, I still don't have any idea what could cause your fan not to come on. It might have something to do with not having the AC hooked up. Regardless, it should still come on at hotter temps. Maybe leave your radiator cap off and let it get a little too warm and see if this causes the fan to come on. If not, then I am out of ideas.

Oh, wait. It could be the relay. If you can get another relay (like the one supposed to be for your AC), change out the one for the aux. fan and see if that helps. If it doesn't, use a voltage tester to see if the relay is being sent a signal from the computer. It is a real small voltage, like 1-2 volts, that activates the relay. There are diagrams out there on the web that show which posts on the relay go where which should help you figure out which one is coming from the computer. If you are never getting a signal from the computer, even when it is a little too hot, then at least you have eliminated the relay as the problem.

Does your temperature gauge in the dash work properly?
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