Forum Index
Jeep Horizons HomeLinksJeep Horizons Tech Write-upsJeep newsLand useContact

 Watched TopicsWatched Topics   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Need serious help with 87' Jeep Inline6 a/trans 4.0l


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Cherokee Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
87Eugenejeep
Member


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:09 am    Post subject: Need serious help with 87' Jeep Inline6 a/trans 4.0l Reply with quote

Ok lets see if I can get all the information in this one post.
Problem: Will turn over but will not start. also everythings dims while starting. Heater, wipers, turn signal sometimes work while key is is in the "on" position. Tested battery and was replaced 3 mos ago 850 CCA

What I have done so far: Replaced Starter , Alternator 90amp, blue fuse/relays in engine by battery, Check all fusiable links.Checked for spark "no spark" from distribitor. Reset distribor cam and cleaned it up. Checked Cap and Rotor clean and was replaced 6 mos ago.

After replacing the starter I was able to get fuel in the fuel rail. Fuel tank is priming w/key in the "on" position. Still no spark from the spark plugs. I pulled one plug off the 3rd plug and grounded it to the vavle cover. I have tested the center plug wire on the distribor that comes from the not sure what it is called but it is mounted on the passenger side wheelwell of car. Voltage jumps all around while starting.

so after looking in the Distribitor cam at the stator sensor "camshaft position senor" everything looks good. I also realigned the Oil pump slot to the 11 o'clock as it should be. It was at 9 o'clock. the rotor is pointed at 4 o'clock now. it was at 2 o'clock.

So this is what happened while driving and it died.
prior to it dying the heater and wipers were not working. first thing in the morning. I went out 2 hours later to warm the car up and the heater and wipers were working but turn signals were not. I had the headlights on. As I was driving down the road about 2 miles I smelled something burning was not sure if it was me or the car in front of me. I looked at the gagues and the battery gauge was bouncing all over the place. so I pulled into a parking lot and turned off the headlights everything came back to 14volts for about 20 sec. then dropped and the car died. It will trun over but will not start. I changed the alternator and starter. did not work Now I had it towed home and have been checking everything else. I am so stumpped on this. I do not know if it is the CPS or something just burned up under the dash. If any one has any idea what I can try. I do not have the money to take it in to a shop but have been calling the dealer on this and picking their brain. I am clueless on what to try next.
Also the battery gauge on the dash does not move like no power is going to it.
thank you in advance for any help. Sorry for any misspellings I just wanted to get this posted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
87Eugenejeep
Member


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so I just replaced the Ignition coil and now I can get some indication on the battery gauge on the dash that I have power but not enough to start it. I pulled off the 3 spark plug wire and now can get a blue spark. so I am getting closer but still will not start. I am now looking at the CPS to see if that is it but since it is a hard spot to get to I am not sure if I want to dive into that and that not be it. I know I just replaced the alternator a few days ago when this started but could I have shorted it out while monkeying around with everything. Still no wipers, heater, or turn signals.

does any one think this might be the iginition switch that could of went bad? and if so how do I test it ?

Thanks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Code3TJ
Hacker
Hacker


Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Uzbekistan

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do your battery cables look? Possibly the ground cable is corroded? Also, what kind of smoke were you smelling? Electrical?
_________________
Nothing to see here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
87Eugenejeep
Member


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes it smelled like electical, As for the gounds I just re did the end on the battery but going to take a look at the end on the block and also the one that is from the block to the firewall. As for the smell it seemed to be inside the jeep. I have looked hard and deep for burned wires and have checked all fuses visually and with a VOM. I am just not sure what is going on. I can now get some juice to the battery gauge on the dash but not enough to crank it over. The Battery is at 12.65 volts. I am really thinking it is the alternator again but I just replaced it a few days ago. Or it may be the connection block for the igintion coil since after just replacing that I was able to get spark and some kind of reading on the battery gauge on the dash.

Thank you for your input. I am still lost but not giving up.

Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
rodneyjt24
Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this helps..... My 88 would start but when I used any other electrical it would die. I cleaned all major ground cables and battery cables. Replaced camshaft and crankshaft sensors and the throttle positon sensor. Nothing happened until I replaced the ignition control module and cleaned/ added a few extra ground cables. All is well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JeepinNH
Member


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Location: New Hampshire

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject: no start Reply with quote

I think a bad CPS will make 0 spark at the plugs because the computer thinks the motor is not turning. A cheap repair manual should tell how to test it with a VOM. What I wonder is if you fixed the issue by replacing the coil but created another one by moving the rotor (unless I read your post incorrectly). The alternator should not stop it from starting, you can unplug it if the think it's bad. I'm thinking the ECM may have burned out.
_________________
Mike

Present: 99 Cherokee
Past: 86, 87 Cherokee; 94 Grand Cherokee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
87Eugenejeep
Member


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok ECM I have read about it but not sure what it is or where it is. I have a Haynes book and a CD that helps cover everything. I will dig more into that. I have also replaced all the relays and now I have noticed a few wires that were crimped in by someone else who was an Idiot. The guy who owned this replaced the motor about 40k ago. He did a backyard job and have found so many problems. So I am looking into all the electrical now cause I really think that is what the problem is. Does anyone have a diagram for the fuse block under the dash? I am really thinking of taking it out and replacing it. Would this be a good idea or not.

As for the iginition coil I am looking at replacing the ICM also. It is spendy but have a good friend at the local pick a part here and will try that.

Thank you so much everybody for the help. I can rebuild a motor I am just unsure of all the electircal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
88WOWJ
Member


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Location: Hinesville Ga

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: 88 Inline6 Reply with quote

Have you checked the ignition control box under the coil?
This box controls spark to the distributor.
The crank position sensor will only detect number 1 cylinder after three
revolutions of the flywheel.Then the ignition box under the coil will open
to allow spark to the distributor.
My 1988 XJ with 312,000 miles has had numerous electrical connectors
that have shorted.
Headlight switch connector melted
Headlight dimmer switch connector
Ignition switch connectors both have melted
This is a common problem in the older XJs built by AMC.
Check your connections at the ignition switch at the bottom of the column.
This could be your smell of burning and part of your no start problem.
_________________
1988 Wagoneer Limited XJ Tellico Tested
Rocklizards panels, Tomken rear bumper and front Tow brackets, Rocket air intake, 2 inch lift,
30x950x15, 1991 coolant system with electric fans, 8,000 mile marker winch
1991 Cherokee Limited
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
87Eugenejeep
Member


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:43 pm    Post subject: Making Progress Reply with quote

Ok so this is what I have done so far and looks like I am getting somewhere. so I rewired from the fusiable links that are on the ignition ??? down to the Starter and bypassed one fusiable link that was bad. I put new connectors on everything. I also cut the ends of the Positive and Neg battery cables and put new ends on. Reset the distributor cam again. Double checked all the spark plug wires that they were tight on each end.

My wife pulled out the kickboard of the dash and started looking at all the wires. she pulled out I think the ecm which is on the passenger side of the dash and we looked at it. does not smell burnt or look burnt, it does have a 10 amp fuse and it was good but she replaced it with a new one just in case. Looked at the brain on the driver side above the gas pedel and all wires look good.

I also tested the Ignition coil and it is getting spark so I am not thinking it is the ICM.

So after all this and it being around midnight we put it all back together and tried to start it. We were able a few times to get it to almost start, it was like for 3-5 seconds and then die. If I turn the key just right I could get the Wipers, Turn Signals, Heater working. but could not get it to start.

so my endevors tonight is going to pull the steering colum apart and looking at all the wires for the ignition and follow them around till I figure something out. I am also going to replace the Cap and Rotor, along with the coil wire to the cap.

Also on the battery gauge on the dash is still in the red and can not get above 10volts. but the battery is consistant at 12.65 volts everytime I test it.

Does anyone have better diagrams for the ignition set up then what is in the Haynes manual. This would be great to be able to follow it better then what Haynes did. the book is helpful but not enough informaion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
87Eugenejeep
Member


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Location: Eugene, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I bought a heavy duty Cap and Rotor tonight it was aligned up differently then my last one. Pin 1 started on the oppisite side then the old one. It fits and sounds like everything is fireing. I guess as long at the wires are hooked up right which is not that hard to screw up since it shows you how to in the Haynes.

So Also bought a heavy duty coil wire. Still no luck. It just seems like when trying to start the motor it sucks up so much juice to get it going. Before I could just turn the key and it would start. Now I have to twist it pretty hard and while it is trying it is dimming my interior lights as it cranks.

So as it stands now I am really fed up with working on this but do not have the cash to take it into a shop nor do I want to I really want to see what is wrong with it myself. I just love the challange of new things. If it was a computer no problem I can fix any computer or server.

I just want to ask if it would be worth it to just start replacing everything else like Distribitor Cam and sensor, ICM, ECM and the main brain. What should I start with first. Since each part costs quite a bit. Any ideas would be great.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
kaos
Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Location: Iceland

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be in too big a hurry to replace the big budget items until you're sure that the wiring and connections are OK. You say the battery voltage is ok, but have you tried measuring it while cranking the motor? You should expect some drop, but if it's excessive your battery may be bad. Also, if the battery voltage during cranking is ok, try measuring the voltage between the battery positive connection and the engine block while cranking. If this falls much more than the battery voltage itself, you are dealing wiht a bad ground somewhere.

I would also take a good look at the ignition switch, particularly since your accessories only work with the key in a certain postition. It may be bad, but it may also just need to be aligned with the lock mechanism.

Hth,
--
Kári, in Iceland.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
rodneyjt24
Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My problem was the ICM and bad ground wires from the engine to the battery. It would turn over but not start. Sometimes it would start for a few seconds but die. When the engine did run it would die if I used any other electrical. I replaced the crank sensor and camshaft sensor, no help. I cleaned the battery cables and all major ground wires and put in a new ICM.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Cherokee Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Visit links4jeeps.com for write-ups, forums and clubs




Jeep®, Wrangler, Cherokee, Liberty and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler LLC.
jeephorizons.com is not in any way associated with or endorsed by the Chrysler LLC.
All other content is copyright Jeep Horizons 2004-2008.
Tech write-ups Links Discussion board Land use News Site Map Terms of Use

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group