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bllllah front end noise..


 
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GeorgeWtheDog
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Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Greentown, Ohio

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:39 pm    Post subject: bllllah front end noise.. Reply with quote

Hey guys,

Alright, so my front d30 is putting out a ton of noise. I did a quick search of the forums and came up with this from swamp boy with someone else that had a similar problem.

Swamp boy Wrote:

Quote:

Several situations can create ring-and-pinion noise. If the gears have been quiet and begin to howl, they are probably worn or wearing. If the gears howl during deceleration only, it's possible that the pinion-bearing preload has loosened. Howling under acceleration at all speeds indicates that something in the differential -- gears, pinion or carrier bearings -- has worn or no longer keeps the gear alignment correct. If the gears howl while accelerating over a certain speed range, but not all speeds, it's likely that the gears are worn due to lubrication failure or overloading. When a newly installed gear set howls, suspect the design or setup.

A common problem is worn carrier bearings, as indicated by a low-pitch rumble above 20 mph. On vehicles with C-clip axles, the noise may vary while negotiating turns. Worn pinion bearings can cause whirring noises at all speeds, under deceleration and/or acceleration. Pinion bearings tend to whir, rather than rumble, because the pinion is turning several times faster (depending on gear ratio) than the carrier. Badly worn bearings can also cause howl if they do not support the gears correctly.

Worn wheel bearings can be difficult to determine. A very bad wheel bearing typically makes itself heard with great clarity; it's the bearing that is going bad, but not destroyed, that is hard to find. Turning back and forth from hard right to hard left can identify the culprit; however, I've been fooled by right-front wheel bearings that make noise when turning right (which heavily loads the inside-left-front wheel bearing, but also loads the outside-right-front bearing).

One common situation that may not make any noise: The pinion spins, but the tires don't rotate. Broken spider gears can render the differential immobile, and usually make a loud, crunching sound as they make their final departure. A broken ring gear will allow the differential to propel the vehicle for about eight feet at a time, then bang or grind as the section with broken teeth tries to engage the pinion. Depending on ratio, a broken pinion tooth (or teeth) will clunk about every two or three feet.

A broken axle is easily determined. After it breaks, a C-clip design axle can be pulled out of the housing without unbolting anything -- or may even find its own way out. On many bolt-in-design axles, the wheel will give the broken axle shaft away by cambering in at an angle.

A high spot on a gear tooth may sound similar to a broken gear, but will only make noise while accelerating or decelerating, since the spot appears on just one side of the offending tooth. A high spot on the ring gear will make a heavy clicking sound about every eight feet; a high spot on the pinion makes noise every two or three feet and is much more pronounced due to its higher frequency.



I initially assumed (i don't really know why, i just did.) that the problem was a bad u-joint. So I've got the parts to replace the u-joint on hand, but I'd rather not (...I had the pleasure of replacing on of those once before with a friend of mine's m3 and i'd rather not repeat the experience Neutral ). I'm staring to doubt that it would be the u-joint because the sound appears to be comming from farther forward than the U-joint infront of the transfer case. Does anyone know of a good way I can check the u-joint without ripping the driveshaft apart?

The noise, which is something like a low pitched wirring at low speeds and then gets progressivly louder and higher as speed increases, sounds like it's comming from either the diff or the driver's side front wheel bearing. With the front end jacked up, I'm getting a ton of noise from what seems like the driver's side wheel, but I'm having a hard time determining whether it's that or the diff, since they're fairly close to one another.

I took the jeep in a parking lot and did some tried putting more of a load on each side's wheel bearings, but I didn't really notice an increase in noise (possibly because of the nice wirring sound that my MDS pump puts out which is mounted directly to the floor boards.. btw, that actually is one of the sweetest write-ups i've seen. Thanks swampy!!). Are there any additional ways I can test to see if the wheel bearings the problem? I would just swap it now, but seeing how the d30's sweet and doesn't have servicable wheel bearings, I don't really want to blow $150 and not solve the problem.

Lastly, if the problem does like with one of the bearings in the diff, is there any way for me to check that without having to rip the entire thing apart? I just did all the fluids (the problem began occuring about 3 days before I changed out the fluids), so I did look at the front diff (but not well enough because at the time I didn't think the wirring noise was from it). I did take a look at the gears and noticed that neither the ring or the pinion gears appeared worn and there were no metal fragments or shavings in the oil.

Thanks a lot guys!![/b]
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swamp boy
Cherokee Muderator
Cherokee Muderator


Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: New Orleans LA.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack it up.. Grab the tire at 3 and 9 and wiggle it.. Have someone look.. If the wheel bearing moves its bad..

While its up..

Crawl underneath and grab the drive shaft and wiggle it.. Watching the U joint.. If it has motion in it.. It is bad..

Stay there..


Grab the Pinion yolk and wiggle that.. If there is motion in the pinion either in and out or back and forth your problem is in the axle..

In and out would mean bad bearing ..Motion right to left would mean bad pinion gear or ring gear setup..

My money is on pinion bearing..


Let us know..
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GeorgeWtheDog
Member


Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Greentown, Ohio

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinion yolk goes in and out Neutral

So, I've dropped a driveshaft before.. My friend drives an e36 m3 and he exploded his driveshaft (clutch dump from 7k w/ 5 people in the car on dry pavement.. mich ps tires). He and I dropped the driveshaft off the m3 together and I remember them being a decent size.. Why the fuck are the driveshaft bolts so small!? What are they, 1/4''??? I don't have a wrench that small!! I have to run to sears after work and pick up some tiny-ass wrenches. =P

If I just left the front driveshaft off, would it hurt anything to drive around for a day without replacing the gear(s) (I understand that there is an inner and outer.. I should be replacing both, correct?)? I'd only be driving it for a day like that, but I'd like to be able to use it for work. I'm going to be putting in my 242 tonight but I'm not really sure if I'm going to have time to get to the pinion bearing (really doubt it). I'm going to have to be driving about 140 miles tomorrow for work and I'd rather be driving the jeep rather than my other car (a toyota corolla.. which I'm afriad I'm going to die if I hit a pot hole that's too big). =P
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GeorgeWtheDog
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Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Greentown, Ohio

PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok.. got the bolts on the front of the driveshaft off.. the rear (the bolts from the transfer case) are giving me a hard time. I'm guessing they're 7mm because the 5/16ths wrench that i used to remove the front ones, are rounding them off Sad ...8mm is too big and 6mm is too small along with 1/4''.. so i'm guessing 7mm.
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GeorgeWtheDog
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Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Greentown, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTF it's not 7mm either.. 7mm is too damn small.

I don't think I can get a ratchet to fit.. nonetheless, i'm going to hit up walmart for one of those sweet 1/4" drive ratchet kits that i swore i'd never buy because 1/4" drive is completely uselss Cool
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GeorgeWtheDog
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Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Greentown, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

me = dumb.

Alright, soo I got the straps off the front and rear u-joints that are attatched to both diffs.. and I was freaking out because i couldn't find a size to fit the bolts on the flange on the front output from the tcase.. everything else was 5/16". ...here, though 5/16 was too loose.. so i tried 1/4, which didn't fit.. so, I thought it was metric.. 8mm = too big.. 7mm = too small. Well, time to hit up autozone for some sockets because sears is closed for the night.. got a 9/32 and 7.5mm.. both to small... sooo finally I realized that the bolts were rounded off originally before I purchased the vehicle. ...... yeahh.. so I got the rear driveshaft off and I'm just going to drop the tcase with the front one still attatched.. I'm going to just worry about the front one later.. I'll probably just end up replacing it anyway, because it's rocking out some pretty bad rust all over which is making removing the snap rings on the u-joints (all of which i plan on replacing) a complete bitch so I think at this point it's worth just replacing the whole thing..
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quadna71
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Delaware

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

8mm = correct size.
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