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Front to Rear Spring Swap / Budget Boost


 
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Brad S
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Front to Rear Spring Swap / Budget Boost Reply with quote

I have a 95 ZJ - 5.2V8 I realize that there are a lot of posts on lifts, but I have skimmed through them and I guess everyone has their own questions...

Lift:
I am considering the Front to Rear swap.
How much do new front springs cost?
I assume that I will need new shocks for all four wheels. True?

Second alternative is a budget boost. Do you need shocks for installing a 2" budget boost?

Wheels:
I am looking at purchasing some new rims and I am not sure about the sizes.
Right now I have 29" tires, I think stock is 27". Is the stock rim size 15x7? Is 15x8 recommended for larger tires? If I would get 15x8 now, would my current tires fit on them?

Basically, would it look totally weird doing a front to rear swap without getting larger tires? I'm not sure I have the money right now to get everything - very low budget.
What does everyone do with their stock rims/wheels after they upgrade? Do you get anything from selling them?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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5.9 andy
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Joined: 15 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok one awnser at a time here.

1.) new fronts will proably run u about 150-170$ for the two, but dont hold me to that. check out the lift kit sites like rubicon express, old man emu, and the sort.

2.) if u plan to go offroad it will be a very good idea to get new shocks for either lift u decide., if u dont u could over bust em up when u get flexed out... and u wont get full travel.

if u dont plan to go offroad you will still need new shocks if u do the spring swap, if u do a budget boost you wont need new shocks.

either way i would sugest new shocks.

3.) wana say that stock rims are 15X7 but i now swampy ran some 33's on his stock rims for a while so im not 100% shure. I higly recomend using an 8inch wide rim if ur gona go bigger, that way you will be able to air down. if ur on a 29" then u must be on a metrek P235/75R/15 (im guessing on the 75R). i dont think a 235 will be wide enough to fill an 8" wide but if it did i would get some new, bigger tires on em soon.

4.) with the front 2 rear swap yea it will look funny, but i wouldnt worry about that if i were u. i would be more concerned with drive line angles, stearing, track bar, control arms, and brake lines.

5.) as far as getting rid of ur stock rims, it depends on what u want. u could junk em, sell them to Joe Shmoe, but how many people are looking for stock rims. You could allways try to sell them to a junk yard but i wouldnt expect to get as much as 200$ for all 4 of em.

hope this was help full for u brad.
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Brad S
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, yeah that's good advice.
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

run the stock wheels in your local bullitin board. Im sure someone is out there looking for a cheap set of wheels because theirs are bent but i wouldnt ask more than 150 for them if they are the 5 spoke ones that kinda bulge out, the ones that look like they dip in would be worth a little more

i too would reccomend shocks on either lift
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cooperZJ
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Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: augusta, Ga

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:58 pm    Post subject: Just finished my front to rear swap Reply with quote

Here's the low-down.

I bought 4 1/2 inch front springs from [url]DiscountJeepParts.com[/url]
and moved the stock fronts to the rear.

-make sure you get a coil spring compressor from Auto Zone or somewhere.

I made my own spacers from my wifes cutting board- works just fine. Make a template first and then trace a pattern and cut with a jigsaw.
NOTE: the rear spacers are a different diameter than the front.

-Made enough for one inch of spacers on each wheel.

Here's a suggestion* don't remove the lower control arms unless you ABSOLUTELY have too. There a @#$@#$@ to put back on.

I bought front and rear trackbar brackets from Ebay for about $35-50 each. (I forget how much they were).

Note: Brackets suck! IF you use them, and I say IF, bolt them in good and tight and then WELD them in afterward. I went through the Death Wobble before I figured out that the bracket just can't take the stress without welding it in place. So, either buy $150 X 2 swaybars or get a welder or have a friend weld them in place. (I bought a welder) Wink

Next, you should probably buy new springs. The previous owner of my jeep (was stock) put Monroe shocks on them. Not sure really what the specs are, however the front seemed to allow full droop, so I didn't change them. The rear however, limited the droop by about 2 inches. So.....by now, I'm sure you can guess what I did. Yep, welded shock mount extentions to the rear tabs to make it longer! Has been working fine now for about 3 weeks. (Pretty heavy riding too.)

Don't bother with longer brakelines. Just disconnect the stock ones and reposition them so you get more travel.

Oh, and I lowered the transfer case with some 2 X 1" scrap metal from a metal fabricators garbage. I did this to keep a good angle on the driveshaft. Very easy to do.

You will need to use/rent a steering wheel puller (at Advance Automotive) to straighten out the steering.

My alignment is perfect.

I also removed my rearsway bar. Works just fine. Don't miss it a bit.

Then I made home-made quick disconnects. You can find tons of websites describing how to do it.

Cosmeticly speaking, I bought the Krylon brand spray paint from Walmart and taped off and painted the plastic molding and bumpers that faded over the years. I used black. It looks great and has held up very well so far. (supposedly it "chemically bonds" to plastic so it won't scratch off.

Oh, also, you will need to trim the front bumper with 31" tires. Just minor. I used a hack saw.
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Here's the result: the ride is pretty stiff, typical for a short arm lift. I put 31" X10.5 BFG MTs on MickeyThompson rims. I am impressed with the look. It now rides like a Jeep however. It does smooth out at hwy speeds though.

Would I do it again? Yes. What would I do different? Forget the brackets and buy the trackbars- although I'm happy to have had a reason to purchase a welder Smile


If you have any questions on the install, let me know. I'll be happy to help.
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Brad The Best
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Location: Kamloops B.C Canada

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Just finished my front to rear swap Reply with quote

cooperZJ wrote:


You will need to use/rent a steering wheel puller (at Advance Automotive) to straighten out the steering.

My alignment is perfect.

If you have any questions on the install, let me know. I'll be happy to help.


why not just adjust the drag link instead . so that you don't have two turns to the left and half a turn to the right .
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cooperZJ
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Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: augusta, Ga

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: how? Reply with quote

Not sure how to do that. Could you expound please?
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cooperZJ
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Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: augusta, Ga

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: another note Reply with quote

I measured the distance from ground to fender F & R before and after.

Pre-lift -F=31" R=31 3/4" (about 1/2 a tank)

Lifted -F=36 1/4" R= 36 1/4" (Fully gased)

Difference F=5.25" R-=4.5"

Now, I know what your thinking. He added height with the 31" tires too. Right....So, the advertised 4 1/2" of lift from the springs didn't live up. I also added 1" of spacers in addition to the springs.

Here's what it looks like:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/2585000-2585999/2585122_1_full.jpg

[img]http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/2585000-2585999/2585122_1_full.jpg [/img]
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ehirner
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Just finished my front to rear swap Reply with quote

cooperZJ wrote:
You will need to use/rent a steering wheel puller (at Advance Automotive) to straighten out the steering.

No, you don't.

This is how you align a Jeep and recenter the steering wheel. Pulling the steering wheel and reindexing it on the steering column is NOT how you do it.
http://www.4x4xplor.com/alignment.html
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cooperZJ
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Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: augusta, Ga

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

I knew there was another way to do it, but just wasn't sure. I will be heading back to Advance to put the steering wheel back where it was, and then do as described in the link.

Many thanks!
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cooperZJ
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Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: augusta, Ga

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:27 pm    Post subject: note about the shifter Reply with quote

After I lowered my TC, I tried to shift into 4 low. It didn't work.

So, I looked under to see that the linkage had come undone and would not reconnect unless I unbolted part of a bracket and bent it upward about 1 inch. then I reconnected it (with the bolt removed) and am hoping for the best. After I bent it (it took quite a bit a force) it seems pretty strong so I'm not too worried about it.

The link is on the Driver's side just to the side of the transmition.

(there's probably a kit for this somewhere, but this is what I did and it seems to work fine.)
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Brad S
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well for any other newbs out there, I found this:

http://www.autoamenity.com/FAQ/WheelSize.htm
That is a website describing how to determine rim size.

I talked to a guy from a tire shop and I told him what tires I was currently running and he said that they would fit best on a 8" wheel.

SO, I am pretty sure my stock rims are 15 x 8.
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Brad S
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figured I would bring up an old thread that still applied instead of starting a new one.

I'm saving up some cash now for this lift, but I just wanted to clarify some things.

I'm thinking of going with 31"s and doing the front to rear swap with new 3.5" coils in the front.
Would this be a good lift for those tires?

After doing some reading, I've learned that you have to adjust the front trackbar to keep the axle centered on the vehicle in any lift above 2" - What do you do about the rear trackbar? On another post, swampboy stated that all you need for the front to rear swap was a front adjustable front trackbar, coils, and some spacers for the rear trackbar. What do the spacers do? I assume they adjust the trackbar to center the axel as well, but why are they used in the rear instead of another adjustable trackbar?

I've also read that some people use a trackbar relocation bracket. This seems enticing at first because of the $200 cost of an adjustable bar, but they look kinda cheep. How exactly do they work and are they sturdy enough to do the job?
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cooperZJ
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Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: augusta, Ga

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what swampboy said, but theres no spacers for the rear trackbar. He probably meant coil spacers.

I used a relocation bracket, but I dont recommend it unless you plan on welding it on. I got a front and rear relocation bracket and ended up welding both cause they kept coming loose. If you can afford it, I'd save for the adjustable one- it will be cheaper in the long run when you decided to go bigger. The exception would be the upper relocation brackets for the front. Like the ones from Kevins. http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/index.html


I also put spacers in the front and rear (on top of the coils) for an extra inch or so of lift.

And yes, 31's are fine for that lift-you will have to trim a little on the front bumper. I would go with 33's if I had to do it again. I ended up trimming my fenders for more articulation clearance.

Oh and you will need shocks. Trust me. You can get away with the stock ones for like a month and then they blowout and your screwed. Get some shocks for at least the front at the bare minimum. I bought rough country nitros. They've been good to me so far and theyre pretty cheap.
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Brad S
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean by upper relocation brackets?

I have been emailing with Kevin and he quoted me for a front adjustable trackbar and a rear trackbar.
Are the rear ones not adjustable? Would they just be different?

With my 5.2L v8, will my springs from the front need spacers when I put them in the back to match up with new ones for the front?
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