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Long Arms

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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:48 pm    Post subject: Long Arms Reply with quote

So I have decided to go long arms. But I cant seem to bring myself to pay 600 plus dollars for the upgrade. Did some searching found some sites that show how people made their own, I feel as though I have the ability, and the time. Anyone on here done this? I know this forum isn't and technically advanced as mallcrawlin, but I have a thread there. However some of you are fabricators, and I know badger has some ideas up his sleeve

I guess the point of my thread is. What type of steel should I run? Mount the arms on the cross member or frame rail?

Also If you have long arms post up some pics

thanks
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96 Cherokee 7.5 inch TnT long arm Locked F/R, D44 rear, 4.56s, 35x12.50 Muds/36x12.50 TSLs
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badger
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the real question is do you trust your welding abilities with your life?anything that you will be making will need to welded and you have to know that what you weld will stick.its not all that hard to design and put together a front radius arm setup.
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have one of my friends do the welding, both are certified welders, one has his own shop

So what ideas did you have in mind? I was thinking of mounting the arms to the crossmember. That would keep my tires from hitting the arm, little concerned, they barely hit my lower arms now but thats at full lock and flex.

However it would be easier to mount them to the frame rails

So what materials do you think I should get?
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96 Cherokee 7.5 inch TnT long arm Locked F/R, D44 rear, 4.56s, 35x12.50 Muds/36x12.50 TSLs
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badger
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so there are so many ways of going about it.i personally don't like having the arms mounted to the cross member .i've had it that way and it sucks to have to do trans work and have to remove the arms from the cross member as well.

i would try for the frame but then you are losing ground clearance.your best bet would go over to NAXJA and do some searching of there i know a few have posted pics of what they have made.
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried NAXJA did a search on long arms and it just gave me results of the new posts....

I found some websites though

http://www.xjworld.4wdriver.com/longarm.htm

http://www.4x4getaways.com/longarms.htm
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96 Cherokee 7.5 inch TnT long arm Locked F/R, D44 rear, 4.56s, 35x12.50 Muds/36x12.50 TSLs
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badger
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

did you try searching under

crossmember
hand made crossmember
custom crossmember.

since the real question is what you want to do at the frame end.if you want to go with a radius arm those are pretty simple to figure out.

a three link is a bit more involved and takes some calculation to get tha upper arm angle correct to the lower.

a 4 link same thing you will have to do some calculating to get it all right.

you can get help with figuring out the angle using either the 4 link or 3 link calculators that can be found all over the web.you will need excel to run them though.
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badger
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

see both of these write ups just show how to make some anchors.

were as if you built brackets like these they get moved to inside the frame rail and almost even with the bottom of it.

if i were build my own it would be something along those lines.
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How well do you think the radius arm design performs as opposed to the 3 and 4 link designs?
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96 Cherokee 7.5 inch TnT long arm Locked F/R, D44 rear, 4.56s, 35x12.50 Muds/36x12.50 TSLs
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badger
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hate 3 links to prone to failure and what comes down to basic axle wrap.you are leaving one side of the axle prone to twisting.this is the exact same thing everybody is trying to get rid of on a rear axle is it not?the amount of leverage you are giving the one side can be to much.

for a front that you want to continue to daily drive then go with a parallel 4 link,also known as a 5 link .basically what you have now but longer arms.depending on the amount of lift could be more of a mid arm then a long arm.

the vehicle i'm in the middle of building right now will be a 5 link.you get better caster control through the suspension cycle,it tracks better,no bump steer or axle steer through the cycle.

now if its just going to be a trailer queen trail machine then you can think about a double triangulated 4 link.now the problem with these on the front end are you have a tight area to try and fit it all and second you will get some bumpsteer through the cycle,which is why most run full hydro.depending on the state this make it none street legal since you no longer have a mechanical steering linkage.

the only option you are left with is radius arm .the problems with these.there is some binding but if built correctly it is minimal and can be dealt with.the second problem is they can lead to unloading in the front end during climbs.this can be band aided with a center limiting strap.
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see. I plan to drive mine on the road, not daily but still occasionally, but I dont want something that I would be the only one capable to drive, so my options are now 4 link, or radius arm

I've seen most radius arm designs are pretty similar. I understand the potential need of a limiting strap but what stress are you talking about and applied to where?
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96 Cherokee 7.5 inch TnT long arm Locked F/R, D44 rear, 4.56s, 35x12.50 Muds/36x12.50 TSLs
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badger
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stress? i never said anything about stress.but i did talk about bind and i guess you could say that puts stress on parts.

ok with a radius arm you are basically clamping the front axle as far as rotation in relation to the arm.so if you were to draw a line through the line of the arm down through the axle.now draw a line from the upper control arm mount down toward the first line to create a 90* angle.these two plains will never change through out the suspension cycle.

when one side of the axle drops and the other side rises the axle wants to twist .imagine holding a straw firmly on both sides .as you move one hand down and the other up the straw will twist and crumple.your axle is trying to do the same thing.because of the arms locking down the twist of the axle there is bind.

flex joints will help with this some since they allow for movement on that plain.but they are limited in their movement.this is how i setup my last radius arm.everything used stock rubber bushings.they allow what i think is maximum flex ,they also absorb shock better then hiems or johnny joints,and on top of it all if they do get worn out at anytime they are easy to find at any parts store.the down side to rubber is they will wear out but under moderate use they will last you a good bit .at a few dollars a pop who cares if they wear out ever now and then.

these are pics of the last set of arms i made








the cross member was a Rustys

the arms used to mount on the sides of the cross member and below the frame rail.

it was then modified

now the arm comes up inside the frame rail and sites above the bottom of the cross member.

at the frame end i use a set of ends produced by TeraFlex

like i said they use a stock bushing.at the axle end i just use DOM with the right size inner diameter to fit a stock bushing.
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any particular reason why your arms are bent? I see rustys arms are straight but RE lowers as well as the TnT lowers were bent, yours more so
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96 Cherokee 7.5 inch TnT long arm Locked F/R, D44 rear, 4.56s, 35x12.50 Muds/36x12.50 TSLs
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badger
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rustys are now the same way.they are that way to get clearance sooner.so you are not dragging them as you break over an obstacle.

mine were bent to keep the arm inline with the joint/bushing.it also helped to clear the frame a bit under heavy compression .mine are more of an s shape.while the others are using a Y arm design.
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Drake69
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Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Location: Stormtroopin....

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Badger, a little off-topic, but I like how your Xj's featured in Zappe's Builder's Guide. I just picked that book up yesterday and saw your rig in the "Engine and Transmission Upgrades" section. It's definitely a worthwhile book to have as well. good mod bowdown
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badger
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ya i was pretty well covered in the book.
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