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Woo Hoo Im here (also a couple questions for you guys)

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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry... I am a n00b... Can someone enlighten me as to what that is, what it does and where I might find one?
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more thing: I have watched tons of videos and seen what different rigs can do and I am really thinking I need tires bigger than 33s... So here's my updated plan (in order)

4.5in lift and T-case drop:
I know I really need a SYE with a 4.5 but I am thinking I will run without one just like a couple months.

Tires, 1.75in spacers and SYE:
Heres where things get interesting: I will have 6.25in of lift all together which I will be happy with BUT I REALLY would like bigger tires. Any way at all I could put on something bigger than 33s? Say much bigger? I would LOVE 38s... I mean the tire is really the only way to get EVERY part of your vehicle higher off the ground... I don't mind trimming the crap outta the sides of the thing but I worry about the power (my jeep has a "crawler" gear but I don't know the ratio) and the steering... What would I have to do and how much would I expect to pay?

I would REALLY appreciate any feedback I can get.. Thanks.
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swamp boy
Cherokee Muderator
Cherokee Muderator


Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: New Orleans LA.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With stock axles you will be pushing it with 33's . And there is not much chance at all with 35's .. In fact.. With the ford dana 44 front and 8.8 rear .. Both with alloy axles and I want to go to 36 or 37's but I am worried that my axles wont hold up...


I can tell you ..I was snapping dana 35 axles like they where twigs even with 31's and breaking super 35 and hp30 axles with 33's ...
(I broke so many that I kept a spare set of super35 axles and 2 sets of dana 30 shafts in my Jeep when I went out. And dont even get me started on the U joints ......)

I think if you want to go to 38's you better have a dana 60 front (or very well built 44) with a dana 60 or 14 bolt rear.. And thats alot of work not to mention you will definitely not need spacers to clear your tires. They will be sticking out of your fenders about 8" ... Mr. Green Mr. Green

you will get into far more than you can ever imagine on 33's.. I personally ran 33's for the better part of 2 years.. I only went bigger because I grew tired of working on axles so I swapped in better axles.. Then I bought bigger tires just to get my ground clearance back..

Dont let the dingleberrys on the net with the 52's and no front driveshaft fool you .. You dont have to have huge tires to get around..


I used to lead the way whenever my club went out.. There would be guys with 40's or bigger that couldnt follow my grocery getter on 33's..

Acceleration , determination and ignorance gets me anywhere I want to go.. rofl rofl
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swamp boy
Cherokee Muderator
Cherokee Muderator


Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: New Orleans LA.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also.. I believe I said it earlier but just incase I didnt.. If you put more that 5" of lift on your grand you really need long arms ..The Torque on those short arms will rip your control arm mounts off of your frame ..And if you are able to keep the control arms mounted to your frame your ride will be everybit as nice as a freight train with square wheels..

Lifting one of these Mall cruisers is not anything like putting 12" of axle spacers on a Ford.. The quad coil suspension and 4 link setup (5 link actually ) if very complicated and takes a great deal of work to lift it to the heights you are aspiring ...

I am not trying to discourage you ...By all means I would love to see your Grand that big rolling on some huge meats..

I am just trying to make sure you know all the stuff that needs to be done in order to get to where you want to go...

Last thing.. Whatever you do ... If you go long arms dont buy one of those bolt on kits.. Long arms need to be welded to your frame ( or what passes for a frame)
It can be bolted as double redundancy but do not rely on the bolts alone..

I hope I am helping..

Carl
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info.... Your definitely helping me out... The problem is I am not sure what most of this stuff is... I guess what your saying is that with anything bigger than 33s I would need new axels and if I go above 5in of lift I need "long arms" (still not entirely sure what this is).

So something like this might be in order if I want to add coil spacers for more height later (and just want something that is durible and performs well)?

$2800.... *Sigh...

EDIT: Oh yeah... Rather than working on the actual performance parts first (cause like most people I need to do the work gradually) what if I started from the other end... Install SYE and possibly new axels BEFORE installing lift and tires? I mean I know I won't see much performance enhancement until I install the other stuff but at least it gives me a good fondation to do whatever I want with and avoids me breaking a ton of stuff by just trying to get clearence for dirt cheap.... Hell I wanna put lockers on anyway eventually.... Lemme know what you think of this list (if you are nto sick of my n00bishly not knowing wtf I am talkign about.. LOL):

T-Case drop:
I know i will lose clearence and gain nothing by doing this with no other mos but it is cheap and I will be heading in the right direction... I will use this chance to replace the T-case skid with something more hardcore (mine is beat to hell).

SYE:
Same deal as with the T-case drop... But I want a good fondation (besides starting with cheap stuff will make it so I can afford like... A mod a week... LOL)

Dana 60 axels:
Might as well go all the way right? I mean even though I probably won't be putting a 9" lift on anytime soon I might as well take my time on the build and buy the best.. I am not in a hurry. This will allow me to do whatever I want later and not have to worry (right?)

Rear ARB locker with ARB compressor:
The one that also fills up tires... Hell I could get the compressor installed BEFORE the locker if I wanted something to do but didn't wanna spend so much all at one.

THEN after all this, and possibly more, is done (I might need to driveshafts and other drivetrain stuff as well to match the size of the axels???) I could go ahead and get whatever I wanted in the way of tires and lift?

Anyway... I hate to sound like I am going overboard but I would really rather do this build right so I don't wanna upgrade a week after I get it (well.. upgrading stuff I have already fooled with anyway... I am sure there will be all sorts of stuff like a roll cage, snorkle kit, winches etc that I will want later). Basically I really don't care if it takes me 2 years to build.. I just wanna make sure I do everything the best I really can...

Thanks...

P.S Anyone heard of portal gears (like on the unimog)? Can you BUY them aftermarket and are they even worth it?

EDIT2: BTW: In case you are wondering I will not be working on all this stuff myself... I have a friend who is retired from many years as I scientist at IBM and later engineering at Lexmark... He is extremely clever (He holds 18 patents and is named on dozens of others) and loves doing this sort of work (he has a machine shop and his son has a small trucking company so they also have a shop at which they can lift the engines out of the trucks and stuff... I am sure that sort of thing will come in handy)... However he does not know anything about offroading.. Thus I need all the adivice I can get on WHAT to do but as far as actually DOING it (welding to the frame etc) I should be OK...
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you don't have much of a background for off road, the terms, parts, and what amount of mechanical skill is needed I strongly recommend that you go with a 3-4 inch lift and 32s, then after you get around talking to other wheelers you will become more knowledgeable as to what is needed to run 35s on a grand, what long arms are and what they do
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Orangeamc13
Got Rev Limiter?
Got Rev Limiter?


Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Location: East Springfield, Massachusetts - U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1fox2go wrote:
Since you don't have much of a background for off road, the terms, parts, and what amount of mechanical skill is needed I strongly recommend that you go with a 3-4 inch lift and 32s, then after you get around talking to other wheelers you will become more knowledgeable as to what is needed to run 35s on a grand, what long arms are and what they do


Yeah, what he said!!!
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure I can make myself do that its like a pet peeve... Any time I get into a new hobby I buy the best equipment I can afford so I do not have to upgrade later... When I started fencing I went with a longer (therefore harder to control and heavier) rapier even though everyone told me to start smaller... When I got into ham radio I could not afford a base station but I got the best Handheld money could buy at the time and the first time I ever went whitewater rafting I went on a class 4 river... Its just the way I am I guess.

It is worth noting I ever never regreted starting bigger dispite the steeper learning curve (fencing), higher cost of entry (ham radio) and greater physical danger (whitewater rafting.

Oh BTW: Speaking of Ham radio: I just put a nice 50W mobile in my car but offroaders talk about having CBs alot... I got the ham radio so I could make autopatch (a kind of device to connect your radio to the phone network) calls to someone if I needed help but do you think I should also get a CB for my rig?

EDIT: Oh yeah: I have read several places that antenna represent a "danger" in offroading... I assume this is because the springy steel can snap and hit spotters and stuff? I have ordered a mag mount antenna (on backorder atm) figuring that will allow it to fall off if I rollover potentially allowing me to still use the radio to call for help and minimizing risk of flying fragments... Is this the best option or should I go with something else?
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swamp boy
Cherokee Muderator
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: New Orleans LA.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.. That is the long arm kit I was refering to.. However I can certainly help you out on the price.. (I have a friend that is building long arm kits here in Louisiana and he will ship.. Mr. Green His price will be significantly less..

Sounds like a good plan with the 60's .. Its a good way to go.. Because you will have the axles and maybe get a little wheeling in and then you can put the lift and tires on and wont have to worry about axles..

As far as the ham Radio ..I have an HR 2510 that I keep in my Jeep I had a CB shop modify it to give me 11 meter then I simply tune in standard CB freqs ..


HR2510 is very easy to modify in this way .. I am sure whatever you have can also be modified.. you just need access to the 26.565 to 26.955 range...

And Magnet mount ants are good but you will get better SWR from a stainless steel whip. I use a Wilson 2000 Trucker It has a short base with a center load and a 48" whip.. I put it in the center of my roof on the roof rack so it wont hit anyone.. It hits trees but its mounted on a cheap piece of flat steel from Lowes so it will bend out of the way rather than break.. I can get pics if you would like..

Just my opinion...

Carl
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet are you a ham or do you just use it for CB? (I am KC8KQO if your wondering).. As for as my radio goes I won't be able to do that... Its a VHF/UHF rig only and I am sure the VFO does not go below 100MHz...

Ditto on the SWR as far as HF or CB (I don't even think they MAKE mag mount HF antennas.. Not that i have seen anyway) but I can get 1:1 on 2M and 440 no problem with a mag mount so that should be ok...

As far as the axles go where would I buy such things and how do I know what model I need (I am not sure how different "types" of dana 60s are designated but I have seen them listed by vehicle type like "ford chevy dodge etc" but have not seen and for Jeeps... I can only assume I need to buy them out of some wreck or something and get someone to help me find a way to get them on my ZJ... I on the right track?
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swamp boy
Cherokee Muderator
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: New Orleans LA.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here read some of these articles about dana 60 It will give you a good idea what you need...
http://www.offroaders.com/directory/axles/dana60.htm

Just for your info.. You will need a driver drop front ..

Here is a good place to buy a 60 already built and ready to put in your grand.. Just bolt it in and you are done...

http://currieenterprises.com/CEStore/categoriesre.aspx?id=990
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Brad The Best
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Location: Kamloops B.C Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.dynatrac.com/ also will make you a 60 .

with currie you just have to decide if you want a dana 60 or a currie 9" Very Happy
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swamp boy: that site has like all the info I could ever need.. Awesome.

Brad the best: Nice.. I like the ready built deals... How do I know the prices though and how do I know which is best for my Jeep?

Thanks guys... You're being a huge help!
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Brad The Best
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Location: Kamloops B.C Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would go for a 9" but thats just personal preference , and i would probably just get currie to cut down a 9" ford and make it a 40 spline . i would do this because i can get 9" fords for free , they are every were and you can get one from a recking yard for cheeeep . doing this should cost around 2000$ because you would gear it and lock it . shortening the actual housing is only 100$

i believe a currie 9" is around 3000$ there dana 60 start around 3500$ thats air locked and so on . the 60 can go up to around 8000$ depending on what you want on it .

a dynatrac 60 is like 6000$ the dynatrac is probably overkill .

i would honestly get a 9" ford and get currie to cut it for you , disk brake conversion more splines and a locker , should be able to do it for around 2000$ depending on how much you get the 9" for and how much work you can do yourself .

9" fords were in alot of vehicles , do some research and figure out what the best year is the best and hunt for one .

another option is get a chev 14 bolt and get it cut down . i don't know who deals with 14 bolts but they are supported really well in the aftermarket , but you don't see them in jeeps to often .

the 9" will probably be the cheapest and definitely strong enough for what you are planning .
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok... On the site Swap boy posted it listed the years of truck and what model Dana 60s could be found in in them as well as a lot of info on which years were best so I am OK there... Also they tell you what model ARB air lockers (what I plan on buying) will work with the axle you choose so I am also OK there but as far as gearing I am still a little in the dark: Where would I buy the gears? Can I install them myself? What ratio is best (I am using a AMC 40 straight 6 which will be supercharged eventually but not for awhile)?

Thanks.
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