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What Winch?

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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:54 am    Post subject: What Winch? Reply with quote

First off: Sorry if this topic already exists... I could not find the forum search function.

I found an interesting artical part od which really suprised me.

The article was about a real world test of a wide variety of winches under harsh real world conditions... What suprised me is that MORE THAN HALF of the winches in the competition failed to even finish... I mean brand new winches should not fail on their first use no matter how cheap it is... The 3 finishers (out of 7) were (in place order from lowest to highest):

Chicago Electric:
Apparently it had suffered some damage by days end because it was not performing as well as it had at the begining... I really wish they had checked out what was wrong and put that in the article.

Superwinch:
Finished working as new but apparently was not quite as nice as the first place... Still much cheaper.

Warn:
As they pointed out (many times) in the article everyone EXPECTED the Warn to work without a hitch (at one point they implied that the Warn functionality was as reliable as the motion of the earth around the sun... LOL) and it did... Staying cool, drawing little current and having no problems all day. Still as one test exclaimed "It cost more than my jeep!". In my case this is LITERALLY true as it has a list price of $1150 vs. $1000 I paid originally for my Jeep.

So what winches do you guys use and what have your expiriences been like? What do you recommend?
I don't yet have a winch (one of the reasons I am MAKING this topic) but reading the article the superwinch sound like the winch for me... Personally I do not mind spending more for more quality but one thing I did not mention about the super winch is that it has wireless in-cab controls as an option... This is great because I can imagine I would want to be operating the jeep trying to free it while using the winch to give me a little help (I know this is dangerous but you are talking to a guy who wrecked his mustang seriosuly enough that it was undrivable 5 times in less then a year and a half in repeated, unsuccessful, attempts to reach the speed of light on various curvy rural roads).
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kizer
The Link Meister
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Marysville, North of Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could buy a Warn M8000 pretty cheap. I have a Warn9500TI and I do admit I paid a lot less than retail because of a great deal
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Keithtj
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Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Location: Out of jail now

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By chance do you have the full article or the link to it. I'd like to read it and see what other four brands were tested.
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed... The text "the article" in the opening post is a link to the article... Or if that snot working for you click or copy and paste this:
http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/listing.cfm?articleID=353
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Brad The Best
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Location: Kamloops B.C Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would go with ether the warn or super winch . i have both on my quad (warn2500 front) (superwinch2000 back) i have to say they both work good , i use the warn all the time and the super not very often , they both get me out a hole some how .

if you plan on keeping your winch for a long time get the warn , but if you don't think you will use it everyday then get the super .

if you use them like they are supposed to be used i bet the super will last a long time . my friend has a old warn 8000 he bought it used its probably 8 years old , its a little weaker then it once was but still works . i have to say i don't like the ones were the cable screws onto the drum , i prefer them to have the jam style . you can't fix ether on the trail unless you have a cable cutter and at least a 8lbs hammer .

as reliable as the motion of the earth around the sun , i wonder if that was a planetary joke, if it was then i laugh . good ol planetary gear set jokes.
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ThePhantum
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Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have a Warn 9500TI (I also paid a lot less then retail for it). I've abused the hell out of it and, aside from my cable needing to be replaced, it's taken everything I've thrown at it and asked for more.

So, obviously, I recommend getting a Warn. If you're not chomping at the bit to get a winch now, shop around...you'll be able to get a deal eventually.
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... I am still leaning toward the superwinch because of its lower price and wireless controls (also the easily repairable cable).

I am guessing I would use it MAYBE once every two weeks so its not as if it will be getting overworked. Also most of the use it sees will probably be short run... Just to pull me to where I cna get some traction and keep driving.
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swamp boy
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: New Orleans LA.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run a superwinch EP9000 Its a great winch and I replaced a Warn XD9000i with it... The warn was a piece of crap that broke down on me every time I needed it.. I had tons of problems with the stupid solinoids in it .. and the motor wasnt sealed so if it got wet it wouldnt work til It dried out.. Which makes it pretty much useless when you are mudding..

I hated the warn so bad I gave it away to a guy who uses it on his car hauler.. He replaced the Warn solinoids with ford starter relays and mounted it in a tool box on his trailer so it stays dry.. And it works fine for him..

I am not downing all warn winches .. Most are good.. But if you google the XD9000i you will find tons of people who had the same problem as me..

But it soured me on Warn since I paid over $1000 for it and it was crap...
Since I have had the Superwinch I have not had one single issue and it is very strong.. I can keep going forever on this..I am very very happy with it..

Read the Superwinch site.. They have been around as long as warn and are just as widely used by profesionals.. (Baja racers and such)

Just for comparison.. Here are the specs on the EP9 and the XD9 and I threw in the 9.5Ti as well..


Superwinch can be had for about $600 (less if you find one on EBay or Amazon)
Warn starts at about $850
with the Ti dropping in at about $1000

http://www.superwinch.com/pages/ep/ep9.html

http://gowarn.com/xd9000i-multi-mount-winch.asp

http://gowarn.com/9.5-ti-thermometric-winch.asp

Pay special attention to amp draw and line speed.. The Superwinch beats the warn pretty much hands down.. Even the super expensive 9.5 ti draws more amperage and is barely faster..

Amperage is important if you are stuck in a hole and your engine is dead.. you dont want to kill your battery as well getting yourself out.. That would truly suck...
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Brad The Best
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Location: Kamloops B.C Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would recommend both warn and superwinch , i have both on my quad , a 2000 warn on the front and a 2000 super on the back they both have never let me down , except the cable on the warn broke when i snatch blocked it my other three hundred feet of cable was fine but it decided to break 5 feet from the drum .

have you thought about putting in two battery's and maybe a bigger alternator ? if you look the winches pull about 400 amps at 9000lbs , you single battery might be able to shove that out for a minute before it melts . maybe look at something like a couple spiral cells and a high output alt , its really not hard to install .

your choice anyway , i know some people just run them off stock electrical systems but i wouldn't .

just sorta putting this out there to add into your $$$ of buying a winch Smile
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigger altornator FTW... I will look into it. As for two batteries it seems like it might be work to make the space for an extra one...

However using 6hp as a guide post (the superwinch is 4hp but the warn 9000lb model is 6) we can use watts law to determine that 6 peak horsepower is 324 amps of mechanical power at 13.8 volts (745 watts per horsepower) however given a motor efficiency of perhaps 80% we can assume it will draw very close to 400 amps... Incidentally it will be dissapaiting like more than 1000W of energy as heat losses... Thats a lot of heat.. No wonder so many of them failed in that winch test article I linked.

Also that explains how the winch seems to get weaker... They are presumably using a permenent magnet motor meaning enough heat and the magnet will get close the the "curry point" and suffer some permenent loss of magnetism.

I guess a single 800 amp battery would work but its still gonna drain pretty damm fast...

Oh well.. I am on a tight budget so I bought a heavy duty strap with a rachet mechanism.. Very cheap and I am sure quite dangerous also... I suppose I should try at least a little to not get stuck.... Of course when I have gotten stuck previously I took 4 ropes (500lbs test) that I used for caving and tied them to the trailer hitch.. I then tied the other ends to a tree and wound them up using a tire jack... The ropes stretch A LOT and thus it was necissary to un hook and retighten several times even to move the jeep the couple of inches required before (with a lot of reving and rocking and cursing) the jeep became unstuck... This was not before I lost my grip on the tire jack and all of the last 45 minutes worth of works stored energy was released in the span of less than a second ripping a chunk out of my leather book, breaking my ankle and 3 fingers... The rachet strap has to be safer than that... Right? Um.. Right?
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swamp boy
Cherokee Muderator
Cherokee Muderator


Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: New Orleans LA.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really ... I wouldnt use any strap that had a metal hook or ratchet on it.. if the strap breaks the kinetic energy that it stores sends it flying back at your truck (or the other vehicle. ) thats very dangerous..

A good tow strap with loops on both ends..

Here is an awesome deal on Ebay..

Here

And this is close to the one I use.. Its 30K strap 30' long..

But mine is green..

As far as putting a second battery in. Its not that hard I have 2 in mine and its a V8..theres plenty of room with an I6 ..

I use an Optima yellow top for my winch and I have pulled 3 trucks up a pretty steep hill with mine with the engine off .. Strictly battery power.. I was very impressed..

one last thing.. For a good alternator all you need is a 136 amp alternator..

Its alternator with part number 56027913 that was an option on the following vehicles:
1997-1998 Dodge B.Series Van
1997-1998 Dodge Dakota
1998 Dodge Durango
1997-1998 Dodge Ram Pickup
1997-1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee

The part number is written on a big tag on the back of the alternator.. I have found several of these in boneyards.. And just for the record .. Very few cars are in a boneyard because the alternator went bad.. So pretty good chance the alt. is good... Mr. Green

Good luck..
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5.9 andy
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Joined: 15 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have read that same artice Duncan... it was good, i am also decided on the superwinch. However, i dont need it now, more importiantly, i need and engne rebuild, so it will b a while.

my current recovery system (as if ill ever need it 4 myself) is 4 20FT 20,000Lbs towstraps, all with loops...because metal hooks an hurt ur rig if the stap snaps.
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Brad The Best
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Location: Kamloops B.C Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my current recovery system is my friends 8000lbs winch on his toyota .

i also carry at east 50 feet of chain and a 15 tonne 20 foot lifting strap .

im a big chain fan because i know how to use chains , alot of people hate them and get in trouble because they don't know how to use them . but i use them all the time and trust them , then again the other day at work i saw a 5/8's grab hook on a 5/8's chain break , all it took was a 290 volvo . Smile

you can do a lot with a shovel a come along and a high lift jack . Smile
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Brad The Best
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Location: Kamloops B.C Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you could always hook up a series parallel switch and make it a 24 volt winch.

i really am not going to explain how to do that , because you wont do it anyway .
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5.9 andy
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Joined: 15 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know how 2 wire in paralell, but wont that damage the winch?

u are putting 2X the voltage into it, yea its gona pull like heck for a while, but i would think u would kill it faster.

BTW...syampy, how did u fit a second battery in ur ZJ, i would love a duel battery, bit im not shure where 2 put it. plz enlighten me.
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