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NO start on engine swap


 
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pojawis
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Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Location: 1/4 Mile South of the Mason-Dixon Line

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:51 pm    Post subject: NO start on engine swap Reply with quote

Working on a '94 Wrangler with the 2.5L four banger. Pulled the one with a hole in the crankcase and replaced with another 2.5L 4 cyl. Got engine started and slowly increased rpm to about 1/2 open throttle when it quit. Had a few fuel leaks and repaired them prior to another start attempt. Haven't been able to start it since. It turns over just fine. Pulled all plugs to confirm spark. Fuel rail has fuel and pressure. When I pulled the plugs they were wet (damp) with fresh fuel. At the end of my diagnostic skills and need HELP. Too much fuel (fuel pressure regulator)? Can't think of what else to check/try, etc. Have read posts on the matter.

Also - did the key trick and the check engine light flashed 1-2-3-3-5-5. Can't find that code (1233 or 333) in the list.

At any rate, if anyone has any insight, I'd appreciate the help.

Thanks in advance...
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Orangeamc13
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Location: East Springfield, Massachusetts - U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: NO start on engine swap Reply with quote

pojawis wrote:
When I pulled the plugs they were wet (damp) with fresh fuel.


If the plugs are wet then the spark musn't be there!
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pojawis
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Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Location: 1/4 Mile South of the Mason-Dixon Line

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understood.

Existence of spark tested by removing, one at a time, each spark plug and grounding to block. Ignition was activated, thereby engaging the starter and turning the engine over. Blue/white spark observed on each plug. This was also confirmed by two witnessess; three if one includes the cat.

Maybe ground the plug threads to the cylinder threads? Why would the plugs spark out of the cylinder, but not in the cylinder? Would too much fuel being delivered to the cylinder 'drown' the spark? (I've put a lit match out in a bucket of gasoline).
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kaos
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Location: Iceland

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are actually seeing three seperate codes; 12, 33 and 55.

According to http://jeephorizons.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2719 they mean:
12 Battery or computer recently disconnected
33 Air conditioning clutch relay circuit open or shorted (may be in the wide-open-throttle cutoff circuit or normal on early 80's models if you don't have air conditioning)
55 End of codes

So, basically the only useful code is 33. I am no expert, but from the description I wouldn't have thought that an A/C problem would cause difficult/no starting, though. :-(

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Regards,
--
Kári
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pojawis
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Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Location: 1/4 Mile South of the Mason-Dixon Line

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to both y'all for the input.

Code 12 makes sense to me as the battery has been disconnected. As for 33, there's no a/c on it, so I suppose there's no relay for same.

Is there another way to test the computer (ECU?)?

Thanks again.
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Orangeamc13
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Location: East Springfield, Massachusetts - U.S.A.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too much fuel would cause it to flood. Did you test the fuel pressure with a gauge?
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pojawis
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Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Location: 1/4 Mile South of the Mason-Dixon Line

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Negative, Orangeamc13, haven't made that test. That can be done on the valve on the fuel rail, no?
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Orangeamc13
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Location: East Springfield, Massachusetts - U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correct!
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pojawis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. When I find a gauge and make the test, I'll post how it turned out.

IF there's an excess of pressure, would it make sense to look to the oxygen sensor first? Anyone have a source for the test values (resistance, I suppose) for sensors?

I appreciate all the help.
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pojawis
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Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Location: 1/4 Mile South of the Mason-Dixon Line

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:
Cranked engine and fuel pressure topped out at 45 psi with vacuum line attached. Removed and plugged vacuum line and fuel regulator (with finger) and pressure was the same. Book figures show 31 & 39 psi with engine running. My book doesn't show a value for anything other than a running engine. Should a pressure drop be seen with the engine only cranking? Didn't have my vacuum gauge along (vehicle is in a friend's barn) to test cranking vacuum. Doing so today, I hope.

Pulled and visually checked injectors for operation and all four seemed to be functioning properly. That is, fuel was being delivered in a similar fashion from each injector and in the proper order. Is there a way to determine if the spray pattern is correct?

All plugs pulled and threads grounded to cylinder threads. Plenty-o-spark observed. All plugs soaked with fuel.

Fuel relay & pump tested by removing relay cover and depressing contacts on relay with supply line, then return line removed. Strong fuel flow observed on both.

Haven't checked the return line for any blockage.
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pojawis
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Joined: 16 Jul 2007
Location: 1/4 Mile South of the Mason-Dixon Line

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Return line showed a blockage. This was removed and fuel pressure retested and found to be 39 while cranking with and without vacuum connected to fuel regulator. Supposed to be 31 with engine running and vacuum connected. Vacuum gauge confirmed <5 while cranking.

Can a fuel pressure regulator be tested other than replacing it with new and comparing results?

Still can't get her to start. Crank, crank, crank and nothing. Now where should I look? Just start replacing sensors, regulator, and such?

Thinking of finding (buying) a code scanner, but don't know much about them. Will an OBDI scanner give me more precise information in this case? If so, what's a economical one that will work? What kinds of things will not show up on a code scanner?
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