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ZJ smashed.

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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: ZJ smashed. Reply with quote

My Jeep currently has 176,997 miles on it and it has driven its last mile without major work (and hopefully its last mile as a stocker).

This may be a longish topic so bear with me here...

My last wheeling trip made me realize that with the way I drive and the sh*t I am likely to try I need something pretty much unkillable... Even stock my ZJ has seemed dammed near unkillable but stuff HAS broken. My last wheeling trip (yesterday) ended (today) with significant carnage and a realization that I will need to go even more badass than I had planned.
This latest trip I decided to try out a trail that can only be discribed as insane... I would up getting stuck in a valley (on about half mile long segment unable to get up obsticles at either end) having to walk out and come back today. The carnage:

Tranmission:
It had been dying for awhile... Slow to shift in cold weather slowly leaking fluid. Recently it started rapidly leaking fluid when under high load. On the trail it finally died... Now it leaks fluid almost faster than it can be added and it does nothing but go forward in first gear (except in park where it stalls the engine).

Tansfer case:
It always worked fine but on the trail I knocked off some electronic part (some sort of sensor thingy) and all the fluid fell out (oops...). It still SEEMS to work but it is probably on its last legs.

Tranfer case linkage:
The stock one seems like total crap to me... I have repaired it several times now I think I will have to replace it cause parts fell off while driving and they are gone now (I guess I littered a little bit... Of well).

Rear driveshaft:
Its gouged by spinning while pressed up against some sharp rocks. Probably bent also.

Passenger tail light:
Its gone now (well... Not GONE... Its inside the Jeep... In many pieces). It sucked cause I replaced the other one not two days ago... Now I have another broken.

Rocker panels:
Rocker panels? We don't need no stinkin...

Body:
Lost some plastic cladding... Oh well didn't need it anyway.
smashed lots of metal... I think it added character to my jeep.

Exuast:
Ripped some of it off... Actually I broke the bracket holding it up while trying to get unstuck at one point and then I ran over the tail pipe.. Several times.
Wound up beaking it off a few inches after the muffler.

Misc:
Cracked a couple headlight segments, mangled the front bumper, overheated the engine a few times, finished destroying the AC condenser (it was already quite dead).

With some winching with the hi-lift (that thing it awesome) and taking a BFH to the corner of a massive rock that was in our way we FINALLY managed to drag over an insane 2.5-4ft verticle face that cut diagonally across the trail and escape... I limped the 20 miles home in first gear... Never exceeding 25mph... After shifting into 2wd with a crow bar... With a transmission overtemp message on the whole way (I did not really care about destroying it at that point... I wanna replace it with something better anyway).

So what did I realize? Well... as evidenced by today I am likely to do crazy stuff even if I am not equipped for it so I might as well equip myself as best I can... My ZJ is now on jackstands for winter and possibly well into spring... In this time I intend to do whatever it takes to turn it into the sort of monster even I will not be able to kill... So heres what I am looking for help with: Give me some ideas on the sort of things I will need... Axles, transmission, T-case, lift, roll cage etc... Here is what I am looking for:

Axles:
Something that I can run 38 or 39in tires on and not have to worry. At all... If I need dana 60s or rockwell 2 and a half tons then I will get them... Just give me some ideas (also: Wider is better in my book.. I don't care if they stick way out.. In fact I like it that way).

Tranmission:
I need something I can adapt to the Jeep preferably with an off the shelf kit but it needs to be AWESOME. I am using the I6 and plan to keep it for the moment cause it is an awesome engine (though I might add NOS for infrequent use when I really need it)

T-Case:
Same as above... Something that can handle abuse like a champ and can be put on the Jeep.

Lift:
I was gonna go with Claytons 7in long arm kit but with 38 or 39 tires I think I may need more lift... Should I get just the arms and stuff and buy my own (longer) springs? Can I even do that? What are my other options?

Other:
Other stuff you might suggest: Winch (thinking superwinch with wireless atm), advice for making my own rollcage (the current plan calls for it to keep the back doors from opening cause there will be supports in the way and also for some rubber bits in between the roll cage and the body to help absorb shock if the body is forced into contact with the cage), skid plates and rock sliders (my rocker panels are so far gone after today they will probably have to be cut out and have something cooler replace them.

Gears:
Given the I6 I will need some crazy gearing to make the vehicle go on 38in tires. I have my heart set on some huge rubber because I loved the clearance I got from adding 31s (not much at all but I DEFINITLEY noticed it... and loved it) and because it is the only way to gain clearance on the ALL of the parts of the vehicle... With axles with huge diffs this is important. I am thinking 5.88? Also will depend on the tranny and t-case gearing I guess.

Lockers:
I want Cheap and reliable. I don't much care about on road manners but it must be drivalbe (if unpleasent) onroad.

Overall goals: I want this thing rock in pretty much every way... Other than that my only goals are to keep it fully enclosed (AC ftw) and to keep it street legal though it does not have to be DD-able... Just legal to drive to the trails and thats it (and the trails I got to are not TO far from where I park it).

Sorry about the long post and noobish questions but I am sort of forced into undertaking this project before I have the knowledge I really need by the brokeness of my Jeep... Hopefully with some hard work I will be able to make something awesome from the "wreckage" of my ZJ.

Thanks for reading Very Happy
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys... I am thinking maybe I should consider a 700R4 tranmission but I cannot find any specific reference to anyone swaping one of these into a ZJ and Advanced adapters did not have any adapters to put it on the AMC 4.0 that I could see.... Anyone know anything more about this or have any other ideas?
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe you should change your driving style, use you head before you attempt an obstacle that seems too difficult for your stocker
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Orangeamc13
Got Rev Limiter?
Got Rev Limiter?


Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Location: East Springfield, Massachusetts - U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1fox2go wrote:
maybe you should change your driving style, use you head before you attempt an obstacle that seems too difficult for your stocker


Exactly what I was thinking!
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What and spoil my fun? Psh....

I needed the upgrades anyway.
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Orangeamc13
Got Rev Limiter?
Got Rev Limiter?


Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Location: East Springfield, Massachusetts - U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like you already spoiled your fun, the ZJ is up on stands and undriveable. What fun is that? Rolling Eyes
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unforgiven
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Location: great white north

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: ZJ smashed. Reply with quote

Duncan wrote:
So heres what I am looking for help with: Give me some ideas on the sort of things I will need... Axles, transmission, T-case, lift, roll cage etc... Here is what I am looking for:

brains







there, dunc, i fixed it up fer ya. Finger Finger Finger
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: ZJ smashed. Reply with quote

unforgiven wrote:
Duncan wrote:
So heres what I am looking for help with: Give me some ideas on the sort of things I will need... Axles, transmission, T-case, lift, roll cage etc... Here is what I am looking for:

brains







there, dunc, i fixed it up fer ya. Finger Finger Finger


LOL... I never CLAIMED to be a SMART driver... But I had fun, no one was hurt and now I am forced to finally start on the upgrades I have planned for so long... All and all no regrets here... Besides having the ZJ on stands and undrivable IS fun... This means I can now spend time working on it, planning upgrades and other fun stuff... I mean lets face it: If we did not enjoy working on our rigs we would buy a used one rather than building one since they are always cheaper than what they cost to build.
So aside from brains (I asked at the autoparts store and they didn't have any... Think I should try ebay?) anyone got any other ideas?
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah one other thing: I have someone offering front and rear Dana 60s with lockers for for $2400.... Good deal? Bad deal?

They are supposed to be in good condition... Not sure what they are set up for though... But assume he is correct and that they are in good condition.... I think they have 4.56 gears.
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viper24242
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Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once saw a front dana 60 without locker for about 2500. I don't remember what the company was and I haven't looked much into axles myself but based on that I would have to say that 2 60s with lockers for 2400 is a pretty good deal. I would say as long as you can make them fit you will probably be ok.
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Brad The Best
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Location: Kamloops B.C Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atlas II t-case , or dana 300 .
i would go with the 4L60-e rather then the 700r4 , you have to get a early one but it would probably be easier to set up and is a better tranny .or get a manual tranny .

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/amc_i6.htm

I would make it look good and sell it to some dumb young kid . and then go buy a grand with a 318 but thats just me . oh and not destroy the new one . Smile

if you want NOS then i would probably rebuild the engine or stroke it and say screw it to the NOS .
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viper24242
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Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course if you really want to have fun you could always swap in an
AX-5. I really want to put a manual behind my 318 but I don't have the cash.
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips... I think the D-60 price you saw of $2500 is already all built and nice (probably all set up for a certain vehicle)... As far as there raw price goes I looked on ebay (obviously shipping would be prohibitive... I was just checking prices) and it looks like a good set of D-60 ready to build was like $2000... I saw a set for 2K and the rear had a detroit locker in it but it also had drum breaks on the rear which would need to be changed.

As for the 4L60-E: Because I am not using a GM engine I would have to have an aftermarket computer thing (prowertain control module) which sounds pretty exspensive... Novaks "knowledge base" article recommends the 700R4 over the 4L60-E for engines not controlled by a GM PCM.

RE the AX5: I sticks are fun and if it was a small buggy I would do it but for some reason I like the idea of an auto in a bigger rig... Not sure why. Also the AX5 is exspensive... Not any more than a 700R4 but I always thought a manual tranny should be cheaper... LOL.

RE the transfer case: Woot... The Dana 300 sounds like the ticket (well... So does the atlas II but that is the very EXSPENSIVE ticket)... It seems adaptable to lots of trannies (including the 700r4) and to have ton of aftermarket support. Of course I would like a higher ratio low gear but I guess I will live.

RE NOS vs. Stroked: I was thinking of stroking it but the thing is I only want more power on very rare occasions... At all other times I am fine with the stock engine... And lets face it with huge rubber on it I won't be winning any races on road anyway so I was thinking of putting a NOS kit and upgraded air intake (by this I mean a bigass piece of PVC that also serves as a snorkle Mr. Green ) this way I could get power for like 15 seconds at a time to race though a mud pit or up a slippery slop and not affect my engine life/tempature/fuel economy during normal use.

Looks like I will be able to start building soon... I have a place to work as long as the weather is warm and am working on obtaining access to a heated garage for winter (I can get a friend with a trailer to move the jeep... Just need to keep the axles on long enough to roll it where it needs to go... LOL) unfortunately I am moving at the same time (trying decrease my 40+ minute drive to work every day) so it is distracting me.. LOL.

BTW: What sort of gearing do you guys recommend for 38-39in tires with my 4.0? 5.88?

Thank!
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very niiiice![/borat]

EDIT: Just priced out everything I want... $13,550... Yikes... Thats a lotta overtime. Most of the stuff is estimates but I tried to err on the high side...
Here is the table for everything... Let me know if you think prices are reasonable... Or if you have other ideas (like how to do it cheaper... LOL) primarily I just want a place accessable from any PC that I can reffer back to... So if you don't feel like reading through this long table don't worry about it...

I will edit it and add specfic links as I get more info and also to check off items as I aquire them this will let me know if I am under or over budget and give me organization for the project.

Parts:

Clayton 7in long arm kit:
$2600 ($2500 is an actual quote I got from a vendor on mallcrawlin but its $150 in S&H which I devided between this and the price of the shocks I am ordering from the same dude)

5 38x14.5x15 TSL SX tires:
$1300

Junkyard D-60 front:
$1000

Junkyard D-60 rear:
$1000

Custom roll cage and bumper (fabricated myself):
$1000

Winch (probably a super winch... with wireless):
$700
EDIT: $600 with free shipping... Under buget already!

Custom rocker panel protection (also built myself):
$400

Shocks:
$350 (based on a quote from the same guy who would sell my the clayton kit... Including S&H)

Junkyard 700R4 tranny in working condition:
$350

Novack conversions AMC engine adapter:
$350 (inculding S&H)

Novack Conversion or Advanced Adapters tranny to T-case adapter kit:
$300 (including S&H)

Dana 300 T-case in working condition:
$300

Front locker (lockrite):
$300

Rear locker (lockrite)
$300

5 steel wheels (non beadlocks, 15x10 with as little backspacing as I can get):
$300

Custom made snorkle:
$200 (I am erring on the high side.. Plus I assume i will make it prety nice)

5.13 ratio gears (front):
$200

5.13 gears (rear):
$200

Other stuff:

Tools (to compliment the ones I already have):
$1000

Supplies (paint, lubricants, fasteners and other stuff):
$1000[/url]


Last edited by Duncan on Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Brad S
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Joined: 10 Sep 2004

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holy crap...
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