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ZJ smashed.

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viper24242
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Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duncan wrote:
EDIT: Just priced out everything I want... $13,550... Yikes... Thats a lotta overtime.


Thats why my Jeep is still small. I am thinking about a manual because they're pretty built proof. I don't like having to worry about fluid lines and electronic shinanagins, I just want it to work.
_________________
'94 Grand 5.2L
2" budget boost
31" mud kings
Flowmaster 50
Rusty's air tube
Rusty's steering stabilizer
AEM throttle body spacer
120 amp alternator upgrade
Rusty's Tie Rod Conversion
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Brad The Best
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Location: Kamloops B.C Canada

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you might want to think about some body stiffeners for your 38" tires and maybe a cage .
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep... I am building a custom external cage... My general idea is to make the cage, the bumpers and the rocker panel protection all part of one integrated unit for added strength... Also I am thinking it will be hard to make a cage cover such a huge area of roof with no side supports so I am thinking either internal supports (probably running thought the roof near where the back seats meet the bacl bed area or simply having the supports on the outside and not having the back doors open. I don't have a tube bender nor anyone I can borrow one from so I will have to be a bit innovative but I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

As for Body stiffeners:
I think the Clayton kit comes with some stiffeners of sorts that run between the front and rear control arms but I actually have a question about making my own super badass unibody "stiffener":

This is an aproximate cutaway of a ZJ unibody right (cut from left to right not front to back)?


Now what if I cut the frame and welded in rectangle stock (shown in red) as shown in this picture only in the areas in red in the overall view (sorry about the crappy MS paint ZJ... LOL):


Thoughts? I know that welding thick pieces to the unibody is hard but what if I had it done and only did it in "stiches"? Any other problems I might run into? Any chance I would ruin the frame somehow? How well do you guys think it would work?

Thanks.
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viper24242
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Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only done a little reading into welding on a unibody and from what I hear it doesn't come highly rocomended. From what I have read the unibody is very precisely designed and welding or modifying the unibody can create more stess in places not designed to carry more load and can warp areas and weaken them because of the heat. I'm not a structural engineer (just a dumb punk college kid) but welding on the unibody dosen't sound like a good idea to me.

But of course if I'm wrong someone will be along to correct me shortly. rofl
_________________
'94 Grand 5.2L
2" budget boost
31" mud kings
Flowmaster 50
Rusty's air tube
Rusty's steering stabilizer
AEM throttle body spacer
120 amp alternator upgrade
Rusty's Tie Rod Conversion
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fishjrl
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Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Location: Canton, Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

check out rocky road outfitters

rocky-road.com

thay have a picture of a grand cherokee with an awesome external cage. i think it is on the axle page for GC
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know welding to the unibody can spell trouble if you are inexpirienced at welding or do not know the proper proceedure... The problem is how easy it is to melt or burn hole though the body and cause damage to the metals temper... I am not sure if reenforcing the body can cause other parts of the structure to fail though... Maybe... Anyone know for sure?

Also to the other guy:
Yeah that cage is awesome... I wonder how he opens the door though?
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viper24242
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Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is a pretty beefy cage, I really like the front bumper on that beast.

If you look closely it looks like he has built in pivots on the cage near the doord so he can open them. And I guess if that fails he can jump in race car style.
_________________
'94 Grand 5.2L
2" budget boost
31" mud kings
Flowmaster 50
Rusty's air tube
Rusty's steering stabilizer
AEM throttle body spacer
120 amp alternator upgrade
Rusty's Tie Rod Conversion
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Duncan
Member


Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah but it looks like there is a bottom bar accross the door as well... Even if it has a pivot also (not sure) there is no way he could reach that far down the door from inside... Also those tubes seem pretty thin... I wonder how well it would actually work if it rolled.
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should never weld on the unibody unless you absolutely have to
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a general idea I understand that but the question then is DO I "absolutely have to"... I mean... If I add all that weight and plan to drive a bit spiritedly I have to do something right? Also I think the person I had doing this would be quite and expert at welding.
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if your going to do all of this, and drive hard, get something with a frame
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96 Cherokee 7.5 inch TnT long arm Locked F/R, D44 rear, 4.56s, 35x12.50 Muds/36x12.50 TSLs
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Duncan
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Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am determined to make it work... Or at least determine for sure it can be done... I think I will use Solidworks to build a ZJ unibody with the modifications I intend.. Then I will simulate the stresses it should be subjected to and see how close it comes to failing I will do the same with an unmodified body for reference... It will be awhile before I get that far along though so I've got time... I have quit e bit of training in 3D design and simulation but it was all on Autodesk inventor... The two programs do essentially the same thing and seem very similar.. Hopefully I won't have much trouble.
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viper24242
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Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: Harrisonburg, VA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds pretty cool. Let me know how it turns out.
_________________
'94 Grand 5.2L
2" budget boost
31" mud kings
Flowmaster 50
Rusty's air tube
Rusty's steering stabilizer
AEM throttle body spacer
120 amp alternator upgrade
Rusty's Tie Rod Conversion
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swamp boy
Cherokee Muderator
Cherokee Muderator


Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: New Orleans LA.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to weld the unit body.. I would suggest drilling holes thru it and using some grade 8 bolts thru it as well..
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Unless you include the sawzall work..

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Duncan
Member


Joined: 09 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm.. I think I will do that... I talked to our resident SW expert... He told me a bunch of interesting stuff, showed me a stress analysis he was working on and even offered to help me set up mine... Unfortunately he also told me the version of the stress analysis plugin we have does not support assemblies... Only single parts (no part bolted together for example) so although the unibody is not one piece (at least did not look to me like it was) I will have to treat it as such if they do not upgrade to the better version as they are thinking about doing despite the fact that the upgrade alone is like another $10K or more.. LOL (which also includes thermal modeling... Perfect for seeing how big a NOS kit I can put on... LOL).

Anyone know where I can find drawings of the unibody or at least a complete set of dimensions? (I am sending an email to a retired chrystler engineer I know through a friend of mine but I have no idea if he can get me that or not... So I figured I would ask here as well)

Thanks.
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