Forum Index
Jeep Horizons HomeLinksJeep Horizons Tech Write-upsJeep newsLand useContact

 Watched TopicsWatched Topics   FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Need your help, just got back from the dealer's service shop


 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> TJ Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
KnightFire
Member


Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Location: Hanover, MD

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:50 pm    Post subject: Need your help, just got back from the dealer's service shop Reply with quote

I know, I know, but it was warranty work...anyhow...

I finally was able to get the Jeep in for some warranty work, so that they could figure out why my 2nd gear grinds from the 1 to 2 shift when it's REAL cold outside, but only does about 3-4 times (until the fluid warms up I guess).

Long story short they told me that it was because of the 1" BL kit and they stated that I should be using ATF fluid in my NV3550, they said it should help. The dealer stated the the BL is interferring with the shifter's travel...

NOW, they charged me $43.00 just to look at it and do nothing about the problem. I KNOW that it's a trannie problem because it did it last winter, when there was no BL installed.

I know about the Moss-Magnuson Act, but I'm curious does their story even hold water? I have a 1" BL and 1" MML with a B&M short throw shifter...ALL of these should have negated ANY shifter problems with the 1" BL...right?!

How many of you are running a 1"BL with the NV3550 where 2nd gear doesn't grind?

I just want to be sure I'm 100% right, before I take this any further.

Thanks!

KnightFire
_________________
2002 TJ Wrangler X
Patriot Blue 4.0L
Check Website for Mods/Photos

Amsoil Dealer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
ehirner
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have issues with my AX-15 in 2nd, 4th, and Reverse when it's cold out. I have to pull the shift boot out of the console otherwise it binds. 1" BL, 1" MML, stock shifter.

Without removing the shift boot, I can't get the tranny in gear correctly and it grinds.
_________________
04 Unlimited
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
quadna71
Member


Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Delaware

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

knightfire,
my 03's 3550 also grinds like a big dog. when cold...into first, into second, and one out of three times into third. when very warm (after extended freeway driving) it's tough to pull out of gear...especially out of first or out of second. the dealer flat out told me synchros...but the jury's still out on whether or not they'll touch my jeep Sad sad part is that it's been doing long before i went stupid on my mod list! 33,7000 miles and counting.
chris
_________________
2003 TJ Sport
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ThePhantum
Pissed-Off Admin
Pissed-Off Admin


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Location: I knew it...I'm surrounded by Assholes!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MML is only lifting the engine side of the drivtrain...the transmission mounts are still at stock height. So it is possible to have issues with the shift linkage on a 1" BL.
_________________

97 XJ Sport with a bunch of stuff
Quote:
Never argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
KnightFire
Member


Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Location: Hanover, MD

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thephantum wrote:
The MML is only lifting the engine side of the drivtrain...the transmission mounts are still at stock height. So it is possible to have issues with the shift linkage on a 1" BL.


Shouldn't the BL have lifted the trannie 1"? Isn't that the entire point behind the 1"MML? To put everything back into alignment?

I am pretty sure its the 2nd gear synchros...do they make a trannie mount that's taller for BL applications? I have an aftermarket poly tranni mount, never saw anything that stated I needed a "taller" mount for a small 1" BL...anyone know of a such a beast?

None of this makes sense to me...if it were a geometery problem, ie because the driveline is at different positions, wouldn't the grinding be there all the time? Wouldn't I have problems with the transfer case linkage?

KnightFire
_________________
2002 TJ Wrangler X
Patriot Blue 4.0L
Check Website for Mods/Photos

Amsoil Dealer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
ThePhantum
Pissed-Off Admin
Pissed-Off Admin


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Location: I knew it...I'm surrounded by Assholes!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The BL lifts the body away from the frame. The engine/tranny are connected to the frame (and not to the body). A MML lifts the engine up on it's mounts and helps to straighten out driveline angles. Neither will lift the tranny up.

I don't think it's a driveline geometry issue....it's a shift linkage issue. If you look to raise the tranny (not even sure if there is such a beast), you run the risk of creating a driveline issue to solve the linkage issue. From what I've read, it really gets bad with BL's and tranny/t-case drops...that's when you can start running into problems with the t-case linkage as well.

I also remember reading something about a shift linkage plate that can assist in adjusting the linkage. Thats a vague recollection though....

Good Luck

Steve
_________________

97 XJ Sport with a bunch of stuff
Quote:
Never argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
KnightFire
Member


Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Location: Hanover, MD

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you all might like to see this, it IS a 2000 TSB, but for the same trannie:

M/T - Incomplete Engagement of 1ST/2ND Gear

NUMBER: 21-005-01

GROUP: Transmission

DATE: Mar. 02, 2001

SUBJECT:
Partial Engagement Of First And/Or Second Gear

OVERVIEW:

This bulletin involves replacement of the shift shaft lever to allow the addition of a new detent spring and plunger.

MODELS:
1999 - 2000 (AN) Dakota
1999 - 2000 (BR/BE) Ram Truck
2000 (TJ) Wrangler
2000 (XJ) Cherokee

NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO WRANGLER OR CHEROKEE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A NV3550 MANUAL TRANSMISSION, AND TO DAKOTA OR RAM TRUCK VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A NV3500 MANUAL TRANSMISSION THAT WERE BUILT ON OR BETWEEN NOVEMBER 20, 1999 (MDH112OXX) AND MAY 17, 2000 (MDHO517XX).

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:

The customer may complain that first or second gear may not stay fully engaged. This condition may often occur once the gear has been selected and as the clutch is initially released. This condition may be intermittent in its occurrence.

DIAGNOSIS:

1. Verify that full motion of the shift lever is allowed by the gear shift lever boot, the inner gear shift boot, and the console. The boots or console may be out of place and/or position.

2. If full motion of the transmission shift lever has been verified, and the customer has complained of the above condition, then perform the Repair Procedure.

NOTE: SEVERAL ITEMS MAY CAUSE A SIMILAR CONDITION, BUT REQUIRE TRANSMISSION DISASSEMBLY TO DIAGNOSE. THE TECHNICIAN SHOULD INSPECT THE DISASSEMBLED TRANSMISSION FOR BROKEN TOOTH POINTS, A BENT OR FRACTURED SHIFT FORK, OR FOR PARTS WHICH HAVE FAILED DUE LACK OF LUBRICATION. THE REPAIR PROCEDURE FOR THIS TSB INVOLVES ONLY THE REPLACEMENT OF THE SHIFT SHAFT LEVER AND THE INSTALLATION OF THE DETENT SPRING AND PLUNGER.

PARTS REQUIRED:

EQUIPMENT REQUIRED:

REPAIR PROCEDURE:

1. Using the appropriate year Service Manual, Group 21 Transmissions, remove and disassemble the transmission to the point where the front transmission housing has been removed.

2. Remove the old shift shaft lever.

3. Install the revised shift shaft lever p/n 05072248AA.

4. Verity that the notches in the shift fork arms are aligned.

5. Rotate the shift shaft lever and bushing downward (out of the fork arms), to expose the detent bore in the new shift shaft lever (Fig. 1).

6. Lubricate the detent spring, detent plunger, and detent bore with transmission fluid, p/n 04874464.

7. Install the detent spring, p/n 04741137, into the shift shaft lever detent bore.

8. Install the detent plunger, p/n 05013348AA, on top of the detent spring and compress both parts into the bore (Fig. 2).

9. Press and hold the detent plunger in the lever bore. Then carefully rotate the lever upward into the shift fork arm notches. Be sure the detent plunger is seated in the fork arms before proceeding.

10. Following the Service Manual instructions, complete the assembly of the transmission and install the transmission in the vehicle.

11. Verify the correct transmission fluid level.

POLICY:
Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.


Worth a shot?


KnightFire
_________________
2002 TJ Wrangler X
Patriot Blue 4.0L
Check Website for Mods/Photos

Amsoil Dealer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
ThePhantum
Pissed-Off Admin
Pissed-Off Admin


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Location: I knew it...I'm surrounded by Assholes!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe, but I don't think it will fix your problem since it doesn't apply to an '02...

Quote:
THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO WRANGLER OR CHEROKEE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A NV3550 MANUAL TRANSMISSION, AND TO DAKOTA OR RAM TRUCK VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A NV3500 MANUAL TRANSMISSION THAT WERE BUILT ON OR BETWEEN NOVEMBER 20, 1999 (MDH112OXX) AND MAY 17, 2000 (MDHO517XX).

_________________

97 XJ Sport with a bunch of stuff
Quote:
Never argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
KnightFire
Member


Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Location: Hanover, MD

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update...

I finally got a hold of the Service Manager and he didn't even know about the problem. He is going to look at it personally on Monday. He sounded quite upset about the whole thing actually.

He told me that his standing orders are that if any warranty service is ever denied, that he is to be notified before the customer. This didn't happen, he also said that he has serviced many highly modified Jeeps in the past and will continue to do so, as long as it truley is NOT the modification that is causing the problems. Which obviously isn't the case here...there is NO way a 1" BL could interfere with the shifting of a transmission with INTERNAL linkage and then it only happens when its VERY cold outside. It's gotta be the fluid viscosity...

So hopefully Monday I'll have some good news.

I also called around some independant trannie shops...they all said that I should put in a good 20W50 synthetic motor oil (Amsoil or Mobil1) in the trannie. Weird eh? They all said to use only Amsoil or Mobil1 because they are true synthetics and not blends...

KnightFire
_________________
2002 TJ Wrangler X
Patriot Blue 4.0L
Check Website for Mods/Photos

Amsoil Dealer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
KnightFire
Member


Joined: 07 Jan 2004
Location: Hanover, MD

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conclusion:

The dealer reimbursed what I had paid earlier and was given apologies all the way around. Finger

Anyhow, the Service Manager couldn't get 2nd gear to "grind" but stated that if he had, he was going to put ATF in it to see if that would fix it. He suggested that I do that, I brought up the fact that it states in the FSM to ONLY use Mopar manual trannie fluid and he said that Dodge is the one that told the mechanics to use ATF in the NV3550 because it's a pretty common problem.

So here's my dillemma, should I use ATF or some other type of gear oil, or 20W50 motor oil?

I had Redline MTF in there before and switched back to Mopar...the Redline didn't seem to help much. I've found on the net that only a GL3 type fluid should be used due to the brass synchros...so does anyone have any thoughts on what would be best?


KnightFire
_________________
2002 TJ Wrangler X
Patriot Blue 4.0L
Check Website for Mods/Photos

Amsoil Dealer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
IBTJn
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Location: Just Outside of Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KnightFire wrote:
Conclusion:

The dealer reimbursed what I had paid earlier and was given apologies all the way around. Finger

Anyhow, the Service Manager couldn't get 2nd gear to "grind" but stated that if he had, he was going to put ATF in it to see if that would fix it. He suggested that I do that, I brought up the fact that it states in the FSM to ONLY use Mopar manual trannie fluid and he said that Dodge is the one that told the mechanics to use ATF in the NV3550 because it's a pretty common problem.

So here's my dillemma, should I use ATF or some other type of gear oil, or 20W50 motor oil?

I had Redline MTF in there before and switched back to Mopar...the Redline didn't seem to help much. I've found on the net that only a GL3 type fluid should be used due to the brass synchros...so does anyone have any thoughts on what would be best?
KnightFire

KnightFire, I'm new here, but after looking at everything, I'd probably ask for their (i.e. DC) recommendation(s) in writing if they will do that. Honestly though, my '02 doesn't have that problem (Yet). Typically it's me trying to shift too fast on mine if I've missed a gear. But then again, I only have 28k on it and no lift mods yet. None of this probably helps, but without documentation of their recommendation, I'd be leary. My .02
Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> TJ Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Visit links4jeeps.com for write-ups, forums and clubs




Jeep®, Wrangler, Cherokee, Liberty and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler LLC.
jeephorizons.com is not in any way associated with or endorsed by the Chrysler LLC.
All other content is copyright Jeep Horizons 2004-2008.
Tech write-ups Links Discussion board Land use News Site Map Terms of Use

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group