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Anyone tried any alt. fuels (alcohol)?

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Pantherman
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Anyone tried any alt. fuels (alcohol)? Reply with quote

I was flipping through my tech manual today (Haynes) and noticed that the ECU takes care of the fuel injector firing and the pulse width (time that the injector is squiriting fuel into the engine).

And I quote "By continually altering the the pulse width, the ECU adjusts the air-fuel ratio for varying operating conditions"

Anyone here ever tried running an alcohol blend of more than 10% ethanol and 90% gas? With rising prices I'm trying to find a way to keep my fuel costs down and I know that there's already 10% ethanol in gasoline.

Pantherman
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90XJ4X4
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Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: North of Amarillo Texas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never ran any e fuels but heard on the radio the other day that they are 85% ETHANOL and 15% gas. Most people think its the other way around.

I would run a tankful through it and go from there. Its a cleaner fuel, maybe a few less btu's. No problems I would expect.

Your Jeep may be accused of drinking and driving though.
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try it out

you could mix some in with gas and see how it runs and if it doesnt seem worse reduce the percentage of gas you mix in

let us know how it goes and what brand and kind of fuel your using places to get the fuel would be helpful also

Good luck
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Pantherman
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Well..... Reply with quote

*Looks left, then right*

Here in my little slice of life, we have nothing over the usual 10% ethanol in the gas, so maybe any of the ethanol that I use will be home-brewed. Which is kinda a problem and not. I either gotta find someone who will ship it, use vodka (about 190 proof, 95% ethanol, 5% water) or make it myself, which has legal problems written all over it, unless I get a certifacte from my local gov saying that it's ok to make food grade alcohol (ethanol).

I will keep posted on this as things develop. Most likely this friday will be my next intended posting.

Pantherman
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Code3TJ
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was an article in my paper today about a couple of local companies making ethanol out of biomass (basically rice straw.) Anyway, it said most vehicles can only run on 10% ethanol. So I started searching around and this is what I found:
Quote:
High heat of vaporization indicates that the use of alcohol could give harder starting problems. All the alcohols in pure form have low RVP numbers - so they have terrible cold-start characteristics. Fuelled with 100% methanol, a car will not start below 60° F. Methanol and ethanol in blend with gasoline will increase the original gas RVP number as much as 3 and 1 psi respectively, with the maximum effect occurring at approximately 3% alcohol concentration. Even with methanol- or ethanol-gas blends, cold-start drive-ability remains poor because of the significant cooling effects imparted by the alcohol's high latent heats of evaporation. The extremely high RVP of methanol-gas blends may also cause summer vapor lock problems.

Extreme alcohol concentrations inhibit upper engine lubrication. Methanol and ethanol will absorb large amounts of water from exposure to air, so they must be kept in airtight containers. Alcohol will corrode the cylinder wall, crank bearings, etc., which will lead to premature engine failure.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/dec2000/978123429.Ch.r.html

Quote:
Compressed natural gas, propane, hydrogen, and alcohol-based substances (gasohol, ethanol, methanol, and other “neat” alcohols) all have their proponents. However, although these fuels burn somewhat cleaner than gasoline, the use of all of them involves trade-offs. For example, because they take up more space per mile driven, these alternatives require larger fuel capacities or shorter distances between refueling stops. In addition, conventional automobiles may require extensive modifications to use alternative fuels; for example, to use gasohol containing more than 17% ethanol, the spark plugs, engine timing, and seals of an automobile must be modified; since 1998, however, many U.S. automobiles have been manufactured with equipment that enables them to run on E85, a mixture of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.

http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/sci/A0856789.html

This site has a lot of good info including legalities. However, I do take issue with a couple of his statements, namely, ethanol is more volatile and subject ot evaporation than straight gasoline and it will emit more formaldehyde as a byproduct.

And here's the most complete info I could find. Basically, it's a study from Australia comparing new and old vehicles using both gasoline and ethanol including emissions, durability, performance and consumption.
http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/ethanol/publications/index.html

So, if your jeep is a 1998 or newer, you might be set up already. Also, not sure where you live, but it sounds like higher ratios or ethanol:gasoline are available in the mid-west. Wink
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Pantherman
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:09 pm    Post subject: E-85 Reply with quote

The Local Sterling here in my town started selling E-85 yesterday, I put it in my tank today and ran it. The amount of power that I get from using E-85 is noticable, now it doesn't make the Jeep as fast as a sports car, but it's not sluggish like it was before. And besides, I wanted a Jeep and not a sports car, there is little difference in MPG sofar between the 2 fuels (I had heard that the E-85 would pose 10%-20% less milage). I also noticed the smell, kind of like coconuts. And at $2.50/Gallon I think that I will continue to use the E-85 over the regular gas.

Pantherman
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Code3TJ
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep us posted. Wink
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Pantherman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:00 am    Post subject: E-85 Cold start Reply with quote

Ok, 1st off it is a 1999 XJ, March to be exact, and there is a slitght problem with cold starting, I tried to start and go right away. The Jeep stumbled horribly and almost died untill the temp gauge registererd 100F, which is the begining of the temp range. So I surmise that one must least left the engine get a little warm. Other than that though things have been going well, 45 mile trip to Findaly, so I'll get to see how well the milage is wil this stuff.

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langer1
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: E-85 Cold start Reply with quote

Pantherman wrote:
Ok, 1st off it is a 1999 XJ, March to be exact, and there is a slitght problem with cold starting, I tried to start and go right away. The Jeep stumbled horribly and almost died untill the temp gauge registererd 100F, which is the begining of the temp range. So I surmise that one must least left the engine get a little warm. Other than that though things have been going well, 45 mile trip to Findaly, so I'll get to see how well the milage is wil this stuff.

Pantherman

The mileage will suck. Try 1oz of Acetone to every 10gal of gas, I get 24mpg out of my stock 87XJ.
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Pantherman
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:37 pm    Post subject: Milage doesn't suck Reply with quote

Considering that I lost only 10 miles total off my range on a full tank of E-85 (get 220 miles a tank with gas 210 with E-85) I'd have to say that it's an alternative fuel that I will be sticking with. Sorry to take so long to get back, but I don't do much in town driving.

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doug
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Joined: 23 Sep 2005

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats the acetone do to give you better mileage?
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exmilitary
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Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

doug wrote:
Whats the acetone do to give you better mileage?


This link was given our our Jeep forums here. I've done this myself... and to make things easier, look for old gasline anti-freeze bottles and reuse those when you gas up.

Click Here

One of our local boys went from about 550 km per tank to 750, on a ZJ v8. So far I've only used 2 'bottles' I have noticed an improvement in my YJ. Doing mileage records over the next few months to see what kind of improvement there is for me...

In Canada here, I've found Acetone at Canadian Tire for $9, Home Depot for $8 and Wal-Mart for $7

Mind you, our gas prices dropped yesterday to 96.4 but every little bit to improve mileage is a plus...
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D-LARGE
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Joined: 23 Sep 2005

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hows the acetone still working out? Gas prices are a pretty solid $2.73 or so and there is talk of going up again. Thought I'd stop procrastinating and finally try it.
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exmilitary
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish we were paying that little.... $1/liter here... almost 4 liters in a gallon.... even after current exchange rates I WISH we could pay $3 here Smile

As for the acetone, I've gained on about 3 tanks with 4 oz in each fill about 80-95 extra KM per tank... that's about 1.6 km/mile
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87 YJ Laredo... some mods
88 XJ Laredo... lotsa mods... Sold
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77 CJ5... RIP
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JeepinNH
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Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Location: New Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:35 am    Post subject: acetone Reply with quote

I'm experimenting with this also. I bought a scanguage to watch it, too much of a pain doing the math.. Very Happy It's funny though, when I first installed the scanguage I was getting 22mpg with acetone, I filled up at a different station and am now running around 18. I guess I'll start experimenting with different gas stations too. Maybe the first run with the guage was inaccurate. We'll see. The beast seems to run smoother.
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