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Air intake systems

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canuck4welr
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Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:12 am    Post subject: Air intake systems Reply with quote

Hello everyone, new guy here. Newly registered but been reading the forums a lot and would like to thank everyone for all the knowledge and help posted everyday, sure helped me with the fan install and now have bigger plans then i ever would have had.
I would like to bring up the topic of these K&N and similar air intake systems. I seen there were threads before but someone didnt like the way it was going and locked it so sorry to bring it back up again but I do have some questions.
I do realize there is much hype in many of the systems that claim to add HP, many acually do, some dont. I dont personally buy the argument that Jeep has squeezed all the juice out of thier plants and there's no more to be had. Is there anyone that has had their unit on a dyno before and after say a week or so after and had some gains to report? thanks
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Stevo02TJ
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Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Location: Waynesboro and Harrisonburg, Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not had my TJ on a dyno, but I do believe if you plan to wheel your Jeep, you should keep the stock air filter housing intact and just buy a K&N drop-in filter.

I'm sure someone on this board can help you, but other than that, I cannot.


HTH some,
Stevo
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WhatWasIThinkin
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Epping New Hampsha

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW we have a locked K&N filter thread? It must have been a dooooozee rofl

Anywho....Im not a big fan of the pleated/cottonfiber/cloth/whatever filter, weither its K&N or whoevers. My reason? Fine silt gets past them and ends up right into the engine. Ive proved this to myself on more than a couple occasions with more than a couple different pleated fiber filters.

This dosent happen with paper element filters.

Im a nut for bolt on go fast trick parts and always will be, but not when it comes to air filters. I just dont see that there is enough of a HP increase, torque increase, fuel savings, or seat of the pants goodness to spend $250 for an allegedly performance intake. BTW dont forge any deep water with one of the open intake systems either, or you'lle need to find a new engine. I have truthfully had water up and over my hood and not one drop of it got into my stock airbox.
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canuck4welr
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Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your finding silt in the oil pan?
I doubt if I'll go over the hood with my unit, would have to extend all the breathers and I'd prob be with a snorkel anyways.
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Code3TJ
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Location: Uzbekistan

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WhatWasIThinkin wrote:
WOW we have a locked K&N filter thread? It must have been a dooooozee rofl

X2

I wasn't finding silt in the oil pan. I was finding it in the intake tube itself. Maybe the tube was collecting all of it that was making it past the filter, but I didn't feel like taking a chance. But, I think it has more to do with the type of driving you do. For a street vehicle, that's probably fine because most roads aren't dusty. But when I do take my jeep out (not often enough pull hair ) it's in the dusty desert and that just doesn't work for me. Wink
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canuck4welr
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Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe a set up where it's easy to switch back and forth without to much effort? I do most of my 4X4ing in the sand pits(yes it's not all snow up here) so i dont like the idea of sandblasting the TJ's inards either, but i would like some extra performance on the city/hyways. I realize it wont be much but...
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Lowrider
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Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the 4x4 magazines just had a dyno test with the AEM (I believe) intake system and dry conical filter element. They showed a 16 horsepower increase on a Jeep 4.0 and claimed the dry synthetic filter media was much better than oiled gauze.
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WhatWasIThinkin
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Epping New Hampsha

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found silt all the way to the TB, and Im guessing that it went further than that.



As far as the mags or the air intake companies and thier HP claims, look and see where they make HP. They all show the results from the engines 4-5000 rpm range. I call bullshit on that. Do you run your engine in the 5000 rpm range? Nope and neither do I.
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canuck4welr
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Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll agree with part of that anyways. if u go to the K&N site and look at the dyno test link for the 4 litre for example, they show the whole range compaired to stock and the increase is not significant but they do show some increase right from start not just the 4 -5 range, thier claim is 12 HP @ 4623 but before then they show about a 5 HP till about 3500 RPM then it climbs from there to 12 HP, so yes not many guys throttle up to 5 grand but neither do they say u need to, thats just the top, they dont hide the fact that it's a certain HP at a certain RPM, no bullshit about it. BTW i have seen guys in the mud with mods and i know their running around 4 or over, so they are out there. no bullshit about that as well. I agree most guys wont see an increase because it may be very small, how many guys have a dyno check before and after to disclaim anyone or know even how 5 HP feels like? I sure dont. and if it's plasebo afect or not with guys that run these things i'm not sure, but how do we know that any other mod out there that has a claim to extra HP really works, have to believe the dyno and the graphs prove it for me. give me a list of other mods that i can do that give me 5 HP.
Theres a claim that the throttle body spacers give a bit
Changing oil to synthetics add a couple more
Cat back, maybe another 10?
chips?
Ram air?
electric fan - i've read some guys claim of 17 HP!! dont think i've seem that much but i did feel some( i think)
all of these things cost a couple bucks.
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Stevo02TJ
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Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Location: Waynesboro and Harrisonburg, Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canuck4welr wrote:
...or know even how 5 HP feels like? I sure dont.


If that is all the HP it gives a Jeep, and you don't even know what 5 extra horses feels like, then why are you trying to argue that a whole filter assembly is worth $200 when all it does is suck in air or water? There are quite a few of us who go in mud regularly, and let me be the first to say that the engine is not pretty coming out of a mud hole. I rest assured knowing my engine is the cleanest it can be when I open the air box and none of that crap is in the air tube. Do yourself a favor in the long run and just get the rectangular filter replacement by K&N instead of getting that gawd awful intake...just to come back on here in a week or whenever complaining that your engine hydrolocked.
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1fox2go
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Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Location: Fishersville, Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uhh ill agree with stevo i wouldnt get the whole intake tube...personally it think its a waste for anyone that wheels the drop in however is a different story it helps suck in more air but the box still protects it
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WhatWasIThinkin
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Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Epping New Hampsha

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geesh I guess maybe we did have to lock that other air intake thread rofl

Im not saying that there arent some hardcore offroad people out there that do run thier I4 or I6 at high rpm ranges and can take use of the higher air flow benefits of a pleated cloth filter....

Yes I did say higher flow benefits, they do flow much more air than paper elements do. The reason? The answer....bigger holes on the cloth fiber allow more air threw with significantly less restriction. Bigger holes mean more chance of dirt to get past, and dirt does get by them, thats a fact!

I wont question that the different intake companies about there hp curve results that they advertise. But I just dont see any benefit in the typical rpm range that either the I4 or I6 actually run in. A typical day for me is in the 18-2800 area. Looking that the advertised hp curve shows me no real gain. Nor did I find a gas savings. What I did get with my open K&N set up was a whistling noise and dirt in my engine, neither being what I felt was a benefit. So back to the stock airbox and paper element for me.

I will add that on both my 96 and 99 Ram 360's that adding the K&N open filters made a huge difference in the seat of the pants. Both claimed HP increases which were probably correct , but the fun was in the throttle responce and acceloration. The Dodge Magnum V8's came so chocked down from the factory that almost any bolt-on worked great and every time I added something, it made a big difference.

But the I4 and I6 Jeep engines arent meant to be big rpm screamers. They make low rpm power and torque. Thats the sort of power most want in a Jeep for the crawl at low rpms.

But I suppose that air intakes on Jeeps will be debated like this, just like the folks that put 33's on thier 3.07 geared TJ and tell everyone that they love'em. What did you say about placebo effect? The Ricers get 10 hp out of thier TypeR stickers alone, so maybe there is more than meets the eye here. Mr. Green
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Stevo02TJ
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Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Location: Waynesboro and Harrisonburg, Virginia

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WhatWasIThinkin wrote:
But I suppose that air intakes on Jeeps will be debated like this, just like the folks that put 33's on thier 3.07 geared TJ and tell everyone that they love'em.


HEY!! pissed I happen to be able to live with my 3.07 gearing and 33s Finger That is...until I can get some money to regear.

5th is out of the question on the I-state though...period.
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canuck4welr
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Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry if I'm pissing some of u guys off, wow. just trying to figure out what all the hype about these things are.
are the drop in filters just the same as the cones, same material? I beleive thier claim is that because it's not paper but made of cotton and oiled that it catches as much dirt as a regular paper filter but alows a better flow? why do they claim so much added HP with the addition of the pipe?
BTW 5 HP along with some other easy mods are not bad to take, theres other stuff will cost u just as much for less HP
Also I had mentioned about maybe having an easy on off system for mudding and one for highway/city use, but i guess stevo missed that one. relax buddy, not trying to steal yur wife.
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Stevo02TJ
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Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Location: Waynesboro and Harrisonburg, Virginia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

canuck4welr wrote:
sorry if I'm pissing some of u guys off


You aren't pissing me off, I'm not pissed at all, I'm just giving WhatWasIThinkin a hard time.

Not married either Finger I'm sorry, but I didn't catch that Embarassed
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