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31s on a bone stock Jeep

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TJ Apex
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Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Location: Mountains of SoCal. 6257 elev.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read the term "Disco'ed a few times before, and I'll admit, I didn't get what the hell everyone was talking about until this thread...about 31" tires.

I've gone places with my completely stock rig that I thought I'd never get out of, and not once have I disco’ed, although I have aired down my tires. Stock TJ's have amazing capability, with the right tires (not saying other Jeeps don't, TJ's are all I know) but, I've also have learned where a stock TJ have troubles going too.

I haven't been 4X'in for very long, a little over a year. Everyone that has posted on this thread has very intelligent points.
As a newbi you should learn read the terrain, pick your line and use what you have to the fullest, If YOU feel the terrain calls for you to air down and run disco'ed, by all means. If it doesn't call for it, don't. It's time and energy wasted. Even if you have a BIG rig, you still need to pick a line, and you still need to read the terrain...

I have made race suspension components for years, and Ehirner is correct about sway bars. There only function is to limit the amount of suspension travel, and therefore making the vehicle feel more stable to the driver.
A TJ has a pretty large sway bar up front, just by looking at it, I'd say it's about an 1 1/8 dia. this is because of it's high center of gravity. Look at a small car that’s sits low to the ground and you'll see a much smaller dia. bar.

Now all of you...kiss and make up.
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scorpio_vette
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Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Location: milwaukee WI

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IBTJn wrote:
I've seen plenty of guys on the trails not disco nor air down, and personally it's not for me. I find it more challenging to finess my rig through obsticals than to ram the skinny pedal trying to use speed to make up for lack of traction.


i never said anything about using the skinny pedal to battle ram you way through. what i'm saying is that wheeling hooked up is not the end of the world......it's just more challenging and requires you to think a little better about which line you're going to pick rather than "oh i'll just go anywhere and hope that my suspension flex can reach the ground".

and i also never said anything against disconnecting. so either you guys can't read, because i said it depends on trail, conditions and vehicle. or you guys have just always been copycats who disconnect because they were told to, and are now screwed if you can't rely on your flex to find the ground for you.
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paracutin
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paracutin wrote:
Ehirner, the moderator, is telling everyone you cannot wheel unless you disconnect your swaybar and air down.

I must've missed that. But if you'd like life to be a hell of a lot easier than driving around the trails on 3 wheels with less traction, disconnect and air down.

I guess you did. Let me help.
ehirner wrote:
scorpio_vette wrote:
or just leave the swaybar connected until you get a lift and extended bumpstops.

How do you propose to wheel with the swaybar connected?


paracutin wrote:
Ehirner, I think you need to try and remember what it was like before the lift, lockers, beadlocks, ect...

Airing down and disconnecting has nothing to do with lifts, lockers, beadlocks, etc. I could explain the concept to my 80 year old grandmother and she would likely grasp the idea. It's basic. It's one of the first things you should do before you start dropping a bunch of cash on your jeep because it's free.

Sure it does. How long has it been since either of you wheeled a stock vehicle? It is irrisponsible to tell someone they cannot wheel their jeep in stock form.
I understand that those are two easy and free things you can do to improve the off road capability of your Jeep but they are NOT NOT NOT necessary!
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paracutin
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You just figured out how to use a part time transfer case a couple months ago...how about reading and learning? Then you can speak on the merits of disconnecting and airing down. Maybe, just maybe then, you can be a moderator too.[/quote]

Not completely true. I have been driving part time 4x4's for the last 20+ years! I had a '78 K5 Blazer with a part time transfer case and warn lock outs for may years. I just sold a 2000 F250 Lariat 4x4 with electronic shift and auto hubs. That was one bad ass vehicle!
My 2000TJ is my first Jeep though.
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ThePhantum
Pissed-Off Admin
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Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Location: I knew it...I'm surrounded by Assholes!

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll throw in my $0.02...

No one is disputing that a stock Jeep is a very capable off road vehicle. However, airing down the tires and disconnecting the front sway bar will make it even better. No, it's not necessary, but if you want to get the maiximum ability out of any Jeep (stock or modified), you should do it.

Airing down - I'm not going to even bother...it's all right here http://californiajeeper.com/tire-presures.htm:
Quote:
Tire pressure is the quickest and cheapest way to improve the performance of your vehicle off road. Lowering the tire pressure greatly increases the amount of tread in contact with the ground. I have seen situations when a vehicle having full street pressure was unable to climb due to wheel spin or lack of traction. After dropping the air pressure from 30PSI to 15PSI the vehicle easily climbed were it could not before. It was a difference comparable to shifting form 2WD to 4WD. Reduced pressure allows the tire to conform to irregular surfaces such as rocks. It also spreads the vehicle weight over a larger area, allowing the tire to float more easily over loose or soft surfaces.

Disconnecting the front swaybar will give the tires better ability to stay in contact with the ground. The arguments of having a lift or lockers before you disconnect or that it's more challenging connected are illogical. Even the tamest line through an obstacle can hang a tire in the air. Unless you have a locker, all the power is going to a wheel that is as useless as a shrub.

Running a stock Jeep aired down and disconnected allows you to learn and understand the maximum abilities of said Jeep. At the same time you also learn and understand it's limitations. Those limitations are why we lift suspensions, lock axles, etc. You also learn your limitations as a driver as well. I've seen stock Jeeps (aired down and disco'd) go over obstacles that heavily modified Jeeps had problems with. The difference? The person behind the wheel. A 6" lift and 35's locked at both ends means nothing if you don't know how to use it. The best way to learn that is to push your Jeep to it's limits while it's stock. Then you modify the Jeep to make it perform better and learn it's limitations. In other words build it, run it, break it, fix it, repeat.

My advice for those new to wheeling or just new to wheeling Jeeps is the same as all the other experienced folks on this board. Air it down, disconect the front sway bar and wheel the hell out of it. Learn the limitations of both the vehicle and yourself. Rememeber, it doesn't cost any money to air down and a set of disconnects is relatively cheap. So why wouldn't you do it and make your Jeep even more capable? Of course if you're not interested in learning the limitations and just want to go play in the dirt once in a while, that's fine too...but then you wouldn't be participating in this thread now would you? Wink

Anyway, that's the argument being made here and that argument comes from years of collective first hand experiance.
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paracutin
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Phantum. That was a truly great post. I honestly believe that your counterpart Ehirner was trying to say the same thing but instead he came across as an ass.
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Code3TJ
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

paracutin wrote:

I honestly believe that your counterpart Ehirner was trying to say the same thing but instead he came across as an ass.

And you don't? rofl

I guess you did. Let me help.

You're right, I'm wrong. He said you can't wheel with the swaybar connected. I guess he and I are both closeminded when we think of offroad adventures as a trip somewhere other than to the mall.



How long has it been since either of you wheeled a stock vehicle?

About 6 months since I had my stock F250 offroad and you know what? I aired down to maintain traction so I wouldn't get stuck and have to bug somebody to pull me out. Novel idea, huh?

It is irrisponsible to tell someone they cannot wheel their jeep in stock form.

It's spelled irresponsible and that's not what I wrote, but I'm sure you're bound and intent on reading whatever you want into others' comments whom you disagree with.

I understand that those are two easy and free things you can do to improve the off road capability of your Jeep but they are NOT NOT NOT necessary!

No, they're not necessary, but why do you insist on making your life difficult? Are you some kind of masochist obsessed with doing things the hard way? Truly, I don't think you do understand. If you want to do things the hard way, knock yourself out. no

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JLS
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a buddy in high school that use to off-road with his Buick Regal, he would go through mud, small creeks/water crossing, etc... does that count?
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ehirner
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Joined: 01 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I'm being an ass...paracutin, you bring the suck at quoting.
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Keithtj
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ehirner wrote:
I give good head.



SLUT
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ehirner
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keithtj wrote:
ehirner wrote:
I give good head.



SLUT

That's me. rofl
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TJ Apex
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Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Location: Mountains of SoCal. 6257 elev.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a couple thoughts...On a stock rig how much suspension travel can be gained when you disco?
Also, I read that when you disco and drive on the streets a TJ rocks like a boat in the corners and is almost dangerious. Is this true?
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Why do I have to press one for English?!
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02' Apex Edition,
2" BB, 31" BFG AT's
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scorpio_vette
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Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Location: milwaukee WI

PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ Apex wrote:
Just a couple thoughts...On a stock rig how much suspension travel can be gained when you disco?
Also, I read that when you disco and drive on the streets a TJ rocks like a boat in the corners and is almost dangerious. Is this true?


when i diso'd on my stock jeep i got enough flex to hit to top inside of my wheel wells.

and yes i've driven mine on the street when the stock end links broke, and it felt like a ocean liner going around corners or turns on the highway. felt really nasty.
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ehirner
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ Apex wrote:
Just a couple thoughts...On a stock rig how much suspension travel can be gained when you disco?
Also, I read that when you disco and drive on the streets a TJ rocks like a boat in the corners and is almost dangerious. Is this true?

I can't give you an exact measurement...but on a stock Wrangler, you'll be able to stuff one side to the bumpstop and drop the other until something binds or limits flex.

If your bumpstops are too short, the tires will rub the the inner fenders. This is why...way back in this thread...I said check bumpstop length and extend if needed to prevent the tires from rubbing. The stock bumpstops were setup for a maximum 30" tires unless you're driving a Rubicon (31" tires and a little more bumpstop). If you put bigger tires on, you need to check bumpstop length.

Now....what binds when you drop the other end??? With stock shocks, you'll stretch them out and limit droop that way. Not the best idea as shocks are not intended to be limit straps. With longer shocks, the suspension links will hit a point where they bind up and you'll get no more droop.
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paracutin
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ehirner wrote:

I'm a mod because I give good head.


...and because you swallow...

Finger Finger Finger

ehirner wrote:
Since I'm being an ass...paracutin, you bring the suck at quoting.


It's really great to see the way you treat people that disagree with your opinion. I have read many other threads that reflect the same attitude and tone. If you would like me to quote them I'd be happy to as you seem to think I need the practice. Mr. Green
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